印度軍版網(wǎng)友討論：印度會購買 F-35 嗎？
Will India buy the F-35?
譯文簡介
很可能不會，這里的一些蠢貨根本不明白這意味著什么。
正文翻譯
Will India buy the F-35?
印度會購買 F-35 嗎？
印度會購買 F-35 嗎？
I don't know about the Air Force, but it's the best fighter jet for the Navy.
空軍的情況我不知道，但它是海軍最好的戰(zhàn)斗機(jī)。
空軍的情況我不知道，但它是海軍最好的戰(zhàn)斗機(jī)。
評論翻譯
很贊 ( 8 )
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likes: 27
Most probably no, the dolts here have no idea what it means.
很可能不會，這里的一些蠢貨根本不明白這意味著什么。
likes: 59
https://preview.redd.it/o6rt1odxx4je1.png?width=469&format=png&auto=webp&s=03314de86e132f57aa6599c50df1f3881df48c23
for the comfort of 4 years, we can't buy headache for 50 years
為了僅僅4年的舒適，我們不能購買長達(dá)50年的麻煩。
likes: 1
Average Alpha Defense viewer after watching paid Russian propaganda:
Bro losing technological superiority to a politically unstable is very dangerous for us, I dont think Su-57 can one up the J-35 for one.
The situation in Pakistan makes them desperate enough to use any advantage to threaten India in terms of geopolitical affairs.
典型的“阿爾法防務(wù)”觀眾在看了付費(fèi)的俄羅斯宣傳后：
兄弟，失去對一個(gè)政治不穩(wěn)定的國家的技術(shù)優(yōu)勢是非常危險(xiǎn)的。我不認(rèn)為 Su-57 能勝過殲-35。
巴基斯坦的局勢讓他們迫切地想利用任何優(yōu)勢，在地緣政治上威脅印度。
原創(chuàng)翻譯：龍騰網(wǎng) http://m.top-shui.cn 轉(zhuǎn)載請注明出處
likes: 1
Just 4 years?
“僅僅四年”？
likes: 1
If you didnt know the youtuber Alpha defense, somehow thinks that after Trump is out of the office US will stop providing us with upgrades and easy spare parts.
Personally i think thats bs, US is a capitalist state profit is their number one target
如果你不知道，“阿爾法防務(wù)”這個(gè)油管頻道不知怎么認(rèn)為，特朗普卸任后，美國就會停止向我們提供升級和零配件。
我個(gè)人認(rèn)為這是無稽之談，美國是一個(gè)資本主義國家，利潤至上。
likes: 1
The US will stop providing repair parts as soon as the signed contract between countries runs out, not before.
We should require WhatsApp University flair.
美國會在兩國簽訂的合同到期后立即停止提供維修零件，而不是提前。
我們應(yīng)該要求標(biāo)注“WhatsApp 大學(xué)”的徽章。
likes: 1
>The US will stop providing repair parts as soon as the signed contract between countries runs out, not before.
F-16 is out of service from major NATO countries how do you think pakistani and turkish F-16s are in service. Hell how do you think that Greece and Turkey still operate an ancient F-4 fleet? Did they pull those MRO services out of their ass?
>We should require WhatsApp University flair.
Ad Hominems arent funny anymore.
“美國會在兩國簽訂的合同到期后立即停止提供維修零件，而不是提前?！?br /> 北約主要國家的F-16已經(jīng)退役，你覺得巴基斯坦和土耳其的F-16是怎么還在服役的？ 希臘和土耳其又是如何繼續(xù)操作老舊的F-4機(jī)隊(duì)的？難道他們憑空變出了那些維護(hù)、維修和大修 (MRO) 服務(wù)？
“我們應(yīng)該要求標(biāo)注“WhatsApp 大學(xué)”的徽章?！?br /> 人身攻擊已經(jīng)不好笑了。
原創(chuàng)翻譯：龍騰網(wǎng) http://m.top-shui.cn 轉(zhuǎn)載請注明出處
likes: 54
When did so many anti AMCA mofos infiltrate this sub
什么時(shí)候這么多反對 AMCA 的白癡滲透到這個(gè)版塊里了？
likes: 2
They're not deluded by laughable promises of first flight by 2028
他們沒有被2028年首飛這種可笑的承諾蒙蔽。
likes: 30
Simple Answer by the quote in geopolitics world. " Becoming a friend or ally of America is far more dangerous than becoming an enemy of America "
地緣政治學(xué)界的一句名言給出了簡單的答案：“成為美國的朋友或盟友，比成為美國的敵人要危險(xiǎn)得多?！?/b>
原創(chuàng)翻譯：龍騰網(wǎng) http://m.top-shui.cn 轉(zhuǎn)載請注明出處
likes: 12
Kid, in geopolitics, no one is a permanent enemy or friend—everyone has their own interests. Also, India has been backstabbed by Russia multiple times, as Russia has sold its weapons to China and Pakistan.
孩子，在地緣政治中，沒有永遠(yuǎn)的敵人，也沒有永遠(yuǎn)的朋友，只有各自的利益。而且，俄羅斯曾多次背后捅印度刀子，把武器賣給中國和巴基斯坦。
likes: 3
US is literally hosting khalistani terrorist in protection, not just now but long before the entire pannun saga.
Russia for all it's flaws is firmly focused in Europe now, and at least hasn't hosted and funded Indian separatist.
美國實(shí)際上是在保護(hù)卡利斯坦恐怖分子，不僅是現(xiàn)在，早在整個(gè)潘農(nóng)事件之前就是如此。
俄羅斯雖然有其缺點(diǎn)，但現(xiàn)在堅(jiān)定地專注于歐洲，而且至少沒有接納和資助印度的分裂分子。
likes: 7
Oooo, look america, america bad, oooooo, run.
America will come for you in your sleep. Ooooo scary america.
哦，看看，美國，美國壞壞，哦哦哦，快跑。
美國會在你睡覺的時(shí)候來找你，哦哦，可怕的美國。
likes: 17
Lol you’re trying so hard here
The Americans have the ability to bring any nation to their knees.
Look how they have crippled the TEJAS
Look at what they had done with apache helicopters
Look at how they systematically destroyed the aviation industry of Japan
笑死我了，你在這里表演得真賣力。
美國人有能力讓任何國家屈服。
看看他們是如何削弱光輝戰(zhàn)斗機(jī)的。
看看他們對阿帕奇直升機(jī)做了什么。
看看他們是如何有計(jì)劃地摧毀日本航空工業(yè)的。
likes: 4
> Look how they have crippled the TEJAS
A South Korean supplier not being able to deliver engine parts means the US crippled the Tejas?
> Look at what they had done with apache helicopters
What have they done other than sell India equipment that improves its conventional balance with Pakistan and China here?
> Look at how they systematically destroyed the aviation industry of Japan
How have they done this? Do you think the EU, China, and Russia don't seek to knock out their commercial competitors?
“看看他們是如何削弱光輝戰(zhàn)斗機(jī)的”
韓國供應(yīng)商無法交付發(fā)動機(jī)零件就意味著美國削弱了光輝戰(zhàn)斗機(jī)？
“看看他們對阿帕奇直升機(jī)做了什么？”
除了向印度出售可以改善其與巴基斯坦和中國之間常規(guī)軍力平衡的裝備外，他們還做了什么？
“看看他們是如何有計(jì)劃地摧毀日本航空工業(yè)的”
他們是怎么做到的？你覺得歐盟、中國和俄羅斯不會想方設(shè)法擊垮他們的商業(yè)競爭對手嗎？
likes: 4
Not trusting Americans as dolts and getting excited like for f35 would be a start.
不像個(gè)傻瓜一樣信任美國人，不對F-35感到過度興奮，這才是個(gè)好的開始。
原創(chuàng)翻譯：龍騰網(wǎng) http://m.top-shui.cn 轉(zhuǎn)載請注明出處
likes: 3
OK sir, You keep waiting for AMCA while pakistan conducts air strikes with platforms we can't fight.
How many sigma male jaishanker edits have been stuck in post production in the kinemaster app of your phone?
好吧，先生，您繼續(xù)等著國產(chǎn)先進(jìn)中型戰(zhàn)斗機(jī)（AMCA），而巴基斯坦卻用我們無法匹敵的平臺發(fā)動空襲。
在你手機(jī)的 kinemaster 應(yīng)用程序里，有多少西格瑪男神蘇杰生的剪輯還在后期制作中？
原創(chuàng)翻譯：龍騰網(wǎng) http://m.top-shui.cn 轉(zhuǎn)載請注明出處
likes: 4
Jaishankar is the moron who is letting American push strykers down our throat, I am not sure why his scrawny ass is in discussion.
Is Pakistan operating KAAN or J35 today ? No. Would it next 5 years ? Maybe, few dozen at best their broke ass can't afford more.
Those few dozen aircraft don't change balance of power much, you don't have to have 5th gen fighter to counter another 5th gen fighter.
IRL you delopy VHF & UHF in large numbers in your air defence network and than vector your 4th gen aircraft to them, this is how China and Russia have been operating.
蘇杰生就是那個(gè)讓美國把斯崔克裝甲車硬塞給我們的蠢貨，我真不明白為什么要討論他。
巴基斯坦現(xiàn)在有操作KAAN（土耳其第五代戰(zhàn)斗機(jī)項(xiàng)目）或者殲-35嗎？沒有。未來五年會有嗎？也許吧，最多也就幾十架，他們窮得要死，買不起更多。
那幾十架飛機(jī)并不能改變力量平衡，你也不一定非要用第五代戰(zhàn)斗機(jī)才能對抗另一架第五代戰(zhàn)斗機(jī)。
實(shí)際情況是，你可以在防空網(wǎng)絡(luò)中大量部署甚高頻和超高頻雷達(dá)，然后引導(dǎo)你的第四代戰(zhàn)斗機(jī)去攔截，中國和俄羅斯就是這么做的。
likes: 3
>Those few dozen aircraft don't change balance of power much,
IAF already doesn't have a significant edge on PAF but you think a few dozen 5th gen fighters doesn't change anything?
“這幾十架飛機(jī)對力量平衡的改變不大”
印度空軍本來就沒有對巴基斯坦空軍有顯著的優(yōu)勢，你卻認(rèn)為幾十架第五代戰(zhàn)斗機(jī)不會帶來任何改變？
原創(chuàng)翻譯：龍騰網(wǎng) http://m.top-shui.cn 轉(zhuǎn)載請注明出處
likes: 4
No it doesn't, same way Pakistan aquistion of j10c didn't change much. Nor would our aquistion of F35 change anything for China.
Quantity is a quality of it's own and we outnumber PAF by a lot in terms of true 4.5 gen aircraft, whose half fleet is comprise of aircraft like Mirage 3/5 and j7.
沒錯(cuò)，就像巴基斯坦購買殲-10C沒有帶來太大改變一樣。我們購買F-35也不會對中國帶來任何改變。
數(shù)量本身就是一種質(zhì)量，而且在真正的4.5代戰(zhàn)斗機(jī)數(shù)量上，我們遠(yuǎn)超巴基斯坦空軍，他們的機(jī)隊(duì)一半都是幻影3/5和殲-7這種老舊飛機(jī)。
likes: 2
>No it doesn't, same way Pakistan aquistion of j10c didn't change much
It did. Besides rafale, J10 outclasses everything in IAF inventory.
>Nor would our aquistion of F35 change anything for China.
Because we weren't near peer before but could be a significant deterant now
>Quantity is a quality of it's own and we outnumber PAF by a lot in terms of true 4.5 gen aircraft, whose half fleet is comprise of aircraft like Mirage 3/5 and j7.
It means shit when we cannot field half our jets to look after the border with China
“沒錯(cuò)，就像巴基斯坦購買殲-10C沒有帶來太大改變一樣”
殲-10C確實(shí)帶來了改變。 除了陣風(fēng)戰(zhàn)斗機(jī)外，殲-10C在各個(gè)方面都勝過印度空軍的現(xiàn)有戰(zhàn)機(jī)。
“我們購買F-35也不會對中國帶來任何改變?！?br /> 因?yàn)槲覀冎斑€不是勢均力敵的對手，但現(xiàn)在可以成為一個(gè)重要的威懾力量。
“數(shù)量本身就是一種質(zhì)量，而且在真正的4.5代戰(zhàn)斗機(jī)數(shù)量上，我們遠(yuǎn)超巴基斯坦空軍，他們的機(jī)隊(duì)一半都是幻影3/5和殲-7這種老舊飛機(jī)。”
如果我們連一半的飛機(jī)都無法部署到中印邊境，那說這些又有什么意義？
likes: 1
A few stealth aircraft do change the balance hence why everyone wants them…….if what you said was true everyone would forgo stealth, because that just makes things costlier
少量隱形飛機(jī)就能改變力量平衡，這就是為什么每個(gè)人都想要它們...... 如果你說的是真的，大家都會放棄隱形能力，因?yàn)樗粫黾映杀尽?/b>
likes: 7
They will do it either way ,do you really think USA would want India to have an independent MIC? The only way forward is indigenous I have never been a strong advocate of the SU 57 either….we have to build a robust rocket force and get our shit straight and relentlessly work on amca and also sign deal with RR or safran for engine development……. 2 squadrons of F35 won’t do shit in war with its availability rate of just about 50%….Our HCMs will be enough to keep enemies at bay
不管怎樣，他們都會這么做的。你真覺得美國希望印度擁有一個(gè)獨(dú)立的國防工業(yè)嗎？ 唯一的出路是自主研發(fā)。 我從來都不是蘇-57 的堅(jiān)定支持者…… 我們必須建立一支強(qiáng)大的火箭軍，理清頭緒，堅(jiān)持不懈地研發(fā) AMCA，還要與羅爾斯·羅伊斯或賽峰集團(tuán)簽訂發(fā)動機(jī)開發(fā)協(xié)議…… 僅僅兩個(gè)中隊(duì)的 F-35 在戰(zhàn)爭中起不了什么作用，它們的可用率只有 50% 左右…… 我們的 HCM（重型反艦導(dǎo)彈）就足以震懾?cái)橙恕?/b>
likes: 1
You realize most 4th gen fighters have an availability of 60-70% right? And as it stands the F-35A costs $82.5 million compared to India’s Rafale cost of $230 million. Meaning you could literally make back availability in spades by buying almost 3 times as many F-35’s for every Rafale, which would be like 100+ F-35’s if you converted India’s current 36 Rafale’s.
你難道不知道大多數(shù)四代機(jī)的可用率都有 60-70% 嗎？而且就目前來看，F(xiàn)-35A 的成本是 8250 萬美元，而印度的“陣風(fēng)”戰(zhàn)斗機(jī)要 2.3 億美元。這意味著你完全可以用買一架“陣風(fēng)”的錢，買近三倍數(shù)量的 F-35，從而在可用率上獲得碾壓性的優(yōu)勢。如果用購買印度現(xiàn)有 36 架“陣風(fēng)”的錢，可以購買超過 100 架 F-35。
likes: 1
import of 5th gen is needed till amca comes. f 35 is the best option. and more than 2-3 squadrons of f 35 or su 57 will kill amca
在 AMCA 問世之前，有必要進(jìn)口第五代戰(zhàn)機(jī)，F(xiàn)-35 是最佳選擇。但是購買超過兩到三個(gè)中隊(duì)的 F-35 或蘇-57 會扼殺 AMCA。
likes: 7
AMCA can be production in under 5 years, if GoI is serious unfortunately GoI isn't serious.
如果印度政府是認(rèn)真的，AMCA 完全可以在 5 年內(nèi)投產(chǎn)，可惜他們并不認(rèn)真。
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likes: 4
>in under 5 years,
You have more trust in ADA than ADA itself
“五年內(nèi)就能投產(chǎn)”
你對印度國防研究與發(fā)展組織 (DRDO) 下屬的航空發(fā)展局 (ADA) 的信任程度超過了他們自己。
likes: 1
The reality is Modi is a sellout and thus we might get f35, the US foreign policy wants a major war in which China exhaust itself.
India is the perfect candidate to be an Asian ukraine, hence the noise about interoperability and co-production even when it makes 0 sense like stryker.
現(xiàn)實(shí)是，莫迪就是一個(gè)賣國賊，所以我們才可能會買 F-35。 而美國的對外政策則是希望爆發(fā)一場大型戰(zhàn)爭，讓中國筋疲力盡。
印度是充當(dāng)“亞洲烏克蘭”的最佳人選，所以才會有關(guān)于互操作性和合作生產(chǎn)的炒作，即便像斯崔克裝甲車這樣的項(xiàng)目毫無意義。
likes: 3
How is that even relevant to this thread about ADA?
這和咱們討論航空發(fā)展局（ADA）的主題有什么關(guān)系？
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You are mocking the idea of resources to ADA, I am pointing out that sell outs are ready to spend hundreds of billions importing weapons but won't spend 500 million to establish an ONERA type facility in India.
你是在嘲笑為航空發(fā)展局提供資源的想法，我是在強(qiáng)調(diào)這些賣國賊寧愿花費(fèi)數(shù)千億美元進(jìn)口武器，也不愿意花費(fèi) 5 億美元在印度建立一個(gè)類似 ONERA（法國國家航空航天研究院）的機(jī)構(gòu)。
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If this is how you think why even use reddit an American social media platform an extension of American soft power…..
如果你是這樣想的，那你為什么還要用 Reddit？這可是美國社交媒體平臺，是美國軟實(shí)力的延伸……
likes: 11
It is better to buy F-35 than Rafale as it will deter China & remain relevant for longer making better use of money spent however this is provided no comprises to AMCA program are made.
購買 F-35 比購買“陣風(fēng)”要好，因?yàn)檫@樣可以威懾中國，并使其在更長時(shí)間內(nèi)保持其相關(guān)性，更好地利用資金。但前提是不能對 AMCA 項(xiàng)目進(jìn)行任何妥協(xié)。
likes: 10
LM
When you buy rafale, you own the aircraft
When you buy f-35, you join a program in which usa have you by balls
笑死了
買“陣風(fēng)”你就是擁有了這架飛機(jī)
買 F-35，你就加入了一個(gè)美國能捏著你命根子的項(xiàng)目
likes: 8
The French have already denied India's request for radar source code to integrate Astra series on Rafale.
法國已經(jīng)拒絕了印度關(guān)于將阿斯特拉系列導(dǎo)彈整合到“陣風(fēng)”戰(zhàn)斗機(jī)上的雷達(dá)源代碼請求。
likes: 12
I don't think the Indian government will make itself dependent on the American government. We should remember the conditions America imposed on the Pakistani government for using the F-16s. Plus I don't think america will allow f-35 to co-exist with s-400 missiles (it will put russia in advantage as russia doesn't have the tech to track f-35).
我認(rèn)為印度政府不會讓自己依賴于美國政府。我們應(yīng)該記得美國當(dāng)年對巴基斯坦政府使用F-16戰(zhàn)斗機(jī)所施加的種種限制。而且我認(rèn)為美國不會允許F-35和S-400導(dǎo)彈系統(tǒng)共存 (這將使俄羅斯占優(yōu)勢，因?yàn)槎砹_斯沒有追蹤F-35的技術(shù))。
likes: 14
Fuck depending on the americans, we depend on our russian and french overlords for all our weapon needs.
去他媽的所謂依賴美國人，我們的所有武器需求都依賴于我們的俄羅斯和法國爸爸。
likes: 3
What else can we do.. atleast Russians will be sharing the source code for modifications as per our need. Let's see what's gonna happen.
我們還能怎么樣呢？至少俄羅斯會分享源代碼，以便根據(jù)我們的需要進(jìn)行修改。讓我們拭目以待吧。
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likes: 4
Russians and French don't impose preconditions on their weapons usage, why is this so difficult to understand ?
俄羅斯和法國不會在使用武器時(shí)附加前提條件，這一點(diǎn)為什么就這么難理解？
likes: 11
What preconditions has the US imposed on the P-8 Poseidons? What preconditions has it imposed on the Apache helicopters?
India's threats are obvious: Pakistan and China. If the IAF can't use the jets against these targets its a total non-starter as a purchase.
This preconditions theory sounds like a post hoc justification to rationalize why some people incorrectly judge the F-35 was not an option for India.
美國對 P-8“海神”反潛巡邏機(jī)提出了什么前提條件？ 對阿帕奇直升機(jī)提出了什么前提條件？
印度的威脅是顯而易見的：巴基斯坦和中國。如果印度空軍不能用這些戰(zhàn)機(jī)攻擊這些目標(biāo)，購買它們就毫無意義。
這種前提條件理論聽起來像是事后諸葛亮，只是為了合理化某些人錯(cuò)誤地認(rèn)為 F-35 不會是印度的選擇。
likes: 2
>What preconditions has the US imposed on the P-8 Poseidons? What preconditions has it imposed on the Apache helicopters?
A lot I imagine, considering INS jalashwa (ex USS trenton) a ship built in 1968 and sold second hand to India in 2007 had the condition of not being used in offensive operations.
>This preconditions theory sounds like a post hoc justification to rationalize why some people incorrectly judge the F-35 was not an option for India.
F35 literally transmits sensitive data everytime it flies out, it's not an option for India simple reason that India has claimed it wants strategic independence.
Otherwise f35 was on offer even when hillary Clinton was secetary of state.
“美國對 P-8 海神飛機(jī)提出了哪些先決條件？美國對阿帕奇直升機(jī)提出了哪些先決條件？”
我想有很多，考慮到 INS Jalashwa（前身為 USS Trenton）這艘 1968 年建造的軍艦，在 2007 年二手賣給印度時(shí)，都有不能用于進(jìn)攻行動的限制。
“這種先決條件理論聽起來像是事后諸葛亮，只是為了合理化某些人錯(cuò)誤地認(rèn)為 F-35 不會是印度的選擇?！?br /> F-35 每次飛行都會傳輸敏感數(shù)據(jù)，印度追求戰(zhàn)略獨(dú)立，因此 F-35 不會是印度的選項(xiàng)。
否則，早在希拉里·克林頓擔(dān)任國務(wù)卿時(shí)，美國就愿意向印度出售 F-35。
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Ok so let me ask you this question to test your depth.
Can India integrate Astra on Rafale or modify rafale?
好，那么為了考察一下你對這件事了解有多深，我問你一個(gè)問題。
印度是否能在“陣風(fēng)”上整合阿斯特拉導(dǎo)彈，或者對“陣風(fēng)”進(jìn)行改裝？
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Yes for a very expensive price though, unlike su30 we don't have mission computer source code access but aastra is already in talks of integration.
https://armyrecognition.com/news/aerospace-news/2024/astra-mki-integration-strengthens-rafale-fighter-capabilities-through-dassault-and-iaf-collaboration
Although the price may a force a rethink on part of IAF.
可以，但價(jià)格會非常昂貴。與蘇-30 不同的是，我們沒有任務(wù)計(jì)算機(jī)的源代碼訪問權(quán)限，但阿斯特拉導(dǎo)彈的整合已經(jīng)提上議程。
雖然這個(gè)價(jià)格可能會迫使印度空軍重新考慮。
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For Navy i totally agree with F35C but no way for air force
對于海軍，我完全贊同購買F-35C，但空軍絕不可能。
原創(chuàng)翻譯：龍騰網(wǎng) http://m.top-shui.cn 轉(zhuǎn)載請注明出處
likes: 8
Since when did we have CATOBAR capable carrier?
我們什么時(shí)候擁有了具備彈射起飛和攔阻降落 (CATOBAR) 能力的航母？
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The f-35b's that the uk uses can take off from the ski jumps of their carriers (our carriers use ski jumps too) plus they can take off vertically.
The main issue is that the payload capacity is less for vertical takeoff
英國使用的 F-35B 戰(zhàn)機(jī)可以從航母的滑躍甲板上起飛（我們的航母也使用滑躍甲板），而且還可以垂直起飛。
主要問題是垂直起飛的有效載荷能力較低。
原創(chuàng)翻譯：龍騰網(wǎng) http://m.top-shui.cn 轉(zhuǎn)載請注明出處
likes: 3
Not at all, we think the people at MoD are fools
根本不可能，我們覺得國防部的人都是傻子。
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I mean they kinda are tbh
我意思是，他們在某種程度上還真是。
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101% i can bet
我可以百分之百地肯定。
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India should buy 80 F-35s. 36 for AF. 36 c variants for the NAVY. and 8 b variants for the naval special forces.
印度應(yīng)該購買 80 架 F-35，其中 36 架為空軍，36 架 C 型給海軍，8 架 B 型給海軍特種部隊(duì)。
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Nah they won't give it if we only need 40 f35s (with many restrictions) they will bundle it with f21 that's bad deal. Better go for 2 squads of su57 and work on amca on mission mode. No other option is viable. But yeah there are so many american slaves here recently.
PS would have been better if we were in a better position where we were not desperate for a stop gap but that's our present condition
*Just make one thread for f35 why make 100s of post ?*
不可能，如果我們只需要 40 架 F-35（并且有諸多限制），他們不會賣給我們的。他們會把它和 F-21 捆綁銷售，那可就虧大了。不如買兩個(gè)中隊(duì)的蘇-57，然后全速開發(fā) AMCA。沒有其他可行的選擇了。不過最近這兒美國走狗可真不少。
另外，如果我們狀況更好，不用那么急著找替代方案就好了，但這就是我們現(xiàn)在的處境。
*只需要為 F-35 開一個(gè)帖子就行了，為什么發(fā)這么多？*
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We cannot forsake the need for our own 5th gen aircraft. There is no alternative to that. Buying F35s in response to Pakistan's fifth-gen deal is not an ideal choice. We have to invest more money, time and research in AMCA. It's always the initial efforts that's the toughest. Once the ecosystem is built, its easy to build more of it/upgrade/modify it.
我們不能放棄自主研發(fā)第五代戰(zhàn)機(jī)的需求，那是沒有替代方案的。為了應(yīng)對巴基斯坦購買五代機(jī)的行為而購買 F-35 并不是一個(gè)理想的選擇，我們應(yīng)該在 AMCA 項(xiàng)目上投入更多的資金、時(shí)間和研發(fā)力量。最初的階段總是最艱難的。一旦生態(tài)系統(tǒng)建立起來，后續(xù)的建造、升級和改裝都會變得容易。
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Amca is already under development.
The F-22 (even superior than F-35 in many aspects) would only be a viable option if the U.S either manufactures it for export or transfers its technology.
However, from the U.S. perspective, both options remain highly unlikely
AMCA 已經(jīng)在研發(fā)中了。
只有美國為出口而制造 F-22（在許多方面甚至優(yōu)于 F-35），或者轉(zhuǎn)讓 F-22 的技術(shù)，購買 F-22 才是可行的選擇。
然而，從美國的角度來看，這兩種選擇的可能性都很小。
原創(chuàng)翻譯：龍騰網(wǎng) http://m.top-shui.cn 轉(zhuǎn)載請注明出處
likes: 7
On god redditors will start campaigning for paper airplanes for the IAF because they are cheaper.
天啊，Reddit 網(wǎng)友們遲早要開始為印度空軍的紙飛機(jī)搖旗吶喊，因?yàn)榧堬w機(jī)更便宜。
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"But... But.... unlike F35 surely there will be ToT, in case of the paper airplanes, then using that we can make better planes than yamerica"
“但是……但是……與 F-35 不同的是，紙飛機(jī)肯定會有技術(shù)轉(zhuǎn)讓，這樣我們就能造出比美帝更好的飛機(jī)了?！?/b>
likes: 5
Ok captain!!
Here is some information for those who want it
If the US sells the F-35 they’ll ensure maintenance hubs in India just like they did with Japan South Korea and Australia Meanwhile Turkey got kicked out of the program for buying S-400s proving how tightly the US controls access and we know how US subtly creates it's vasal states
Having the F-35 means relying on US approval for maintenance upgrades and spare parts which limits India’s strategic autonomy
The F-22 is superior but The Obey Amendment bans exports(for a obvious reasons) If the US ever revives an export variant which is unlikely but not impossible it could be a game-changer Unlike the F-35 the F-22 doesn’t rely on a global supply chain controlled by the US so it wouldn’t force India into long-term maintenance dependencies or require deep integration into US defense networks
This means India could operate it without worrying about geopolitical strings attached
The Su-57 is risky Limited production questionable stealth and potential CAATSA sanctions make it a political headache
Until AMCA is ready India needs a diplomatic approach modernize the fleet boost indigenous tech and make deals that don’t create long-term dependencies
Realistically, neither the F-22 nor F-35 is easily available, so India should focus on AMCA development while bridging the gap with Rafale upgrades or Su-57 (if diplomatic concerns are addressed).
好的，艦長！
以下是一些信息，供有需要的人參考：
如果美國出售 F-35，他們會確保在印度設(shè)立維護(hù)中心，就像他們對日本、韓國和澳大利亞所做的那樣。與此同時(shí)，土耳其因?yàn)橘徺I S-400 防空導(dǎo)彈系統(tǒng)而被踢出該項(xiàng)目，這證明了美國對準(zhǔn)入的控制有多嚴(yán)格，我們都知道美國是如何巧妙地建立它的藩屬國的。
擁有 F-35 意味著在維護(hù)、升級和備件方面依賴美國的批準(zhǔn)，這限制了印度的戰(zhàn)略自主性。
F-22 性能更優(yōu)越，但《奧貝修正案》禁止出口 (原因很明顯)。 如果美國恢復(fù)出口型 F-22（雖然不太可能，但并非完全不可能），它可能會改變游戲規(guī)則。與 F-35 不同，F(xiàn)-22 不依賴于美國控制的全球供應(yīng)鏈，因此它不會迫使印度長期依賴美國的維護(hù)，也不需要深度融入美國的國防網(wǎng)絡(luò)。
這意味著印度可以在不擔(dān)心地緣政治附加條件的情況下操作 F-22。
蘇-57 有風(fēng)險(xiǎn)，產(chǎn)量有限，隱身能力令人懷疑，而且可能面臨《以制裁反擊美國敵人法案》 的制裁，這使其成為一個(gè)令人頭疼的政治問題。
在 AMCA 準(zhǔn)備就緒之前，印度需要采取外交手段，實(shí)現(xiàn)機(jī)隊(duì)的現(xiàn)代化，提高本土技術(shù)，并達(dá)成不會造成長期依賴的交易。
從現(xiàn)實(shí)角度來看，無論是 F-22 還是 F-35 都不容易獲得，因此印度應(yīng)該專注于 AMCA 的研發(fā)，同時(shí)通過升級“陣風(fēng)”或蘇-57 (如果能解決外交問題) 來彌補(bǔ)這段時(shí)間的力量真空。
原創(chuàng)翻譯：龍騰網(wǎng) http://m.top-shui.cn 轉(zhuǎn)載請注明出處
likes: 1
So you are comfortable with a terror state having an edge over the IAF for close to a decade if not more?
And its better to invest in a subpar piece of slop(compartively speaking) over a much much better product while also strengthening ties with the most powerful country in the world?
Rafael was annhilated by the F35 in friendly war games, so "bridging the gap" is not an option.
What's to say china won't put the screws to russia and stop our supply of spares? Considering only 60% of the SU30 is IC, It would be far lower in the SU57.
God the constant doomsday scenarios of you folk is exhausting. Acting as if the CDS would start taking orders from trump instead of murmu. On god, most of you know 2 things "To be a friend of america is deadlier than being a enemy of america" by henry kissinger and "strategic autonomy" and start yapping about it whenever america is mentioned.
The mere presence of the F35s is a bigger detterent than the actual combat damage it will inflict.
那么，您對一個(gè)恐怖主義國家擁有超過印度空軍的優(yōu)勢感到心安理得，而且這種情況可能會持續(xù)十年甚至更長時(shí)間嗎？
在加強(qiáng)與世界頭號強(qiáng)國的關(guān)系的同時(shí)，投資一個(gè)次品（相對而言）比投資一個(gè)更好的產(chǎn)品更好嗎？
在友好的軍事演習(xí)中，“陣風(fēng)”被 F-35 打得落花流水，所以說“彌補(bǔ)這段時(shí)間的力量真空”是不可能的。
我們怎么能確定中國不會給俄羅斯施壓，斷了我們的備件供應(yīng)呢？考慮到蘇-30 國產(chǎn)化的比例只有 60%，蘇-57 肯定會更低。
老天，你們這些人整天在那杞人憂天，我都快聽吐了。說得好像國防參謀長會聽特朗普的命令，而不是聽穆爾穆的命令似的。 很多人就知道背誦基辛格那句“做美國的朋友比做美國的敵人更危險(xiǎn)”以及“戰(zhàn)略自主性”，然后只要一提到美國就開始說教。
即使不考慮 F-35 實(shí)際造成的作戰(zhàn)傷害，它的存在本身就是一種強(qiáng)大的威懾力量。
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So you're saying India's best move is to tie itself into a maintenance-dependent, politically controlled US supply chain just because F-35(we have us defence tech but F-35 is totally different - not just a jet ; it's a US controlled eco-system) performed well in war games? Japan, South Korea, and Australia have US military presence (iyk what that means) and mutual defense treaties, meaning their F-35 access is guaranteed.
India? Not even close. Turkey got kicked out just for buying S-400s—what happens when India does something Washington doesn't like?
Rafale getting "annihilated" in war games? Against which version of F-35? Because in real-world scenarios, Rafale outmaneuvers and outguns the F-35 in a dogfight(check UAE's joint exercise reports). F-35's strength is in NETWORKED warfare (totally US controlled), not as a lone fighter. Surely no country will be getting the full ecosystem that makes it dominant.
SU-57? Yeah, Russian reliability is questionable, and CAATSA is a concern. But at least Russia won't cut off spare parts at a moment’s notice for "policy reasons" and we have a joint history. Even if only 60% of Su-30 is Indian-made, it’s still better than a 100% dependency on US approval for every upgrade and repair.
And about "strategic autonomy"—it’s funny how people downplay it until they realize how dependent the F-35 makes a country on US goodwill. The F-22 is banned for export precisely because the US doesn't want true air superiority fighters outside its own military.
The "mere presence" of F-35 as a deterrent? Yeah, that US superiority worked great for Taiwan/PAK, right?
India needs indigenous solutions (AMCA), self-reliance in upgrades (Rafale), and smart diplomacy, not a shiny jet that comes with a lease/leash agreement disguised as an arms deal.
The F-35 is cutting-edge, but security isn’t just about only hardware. Trump 2.0 (Mr Republican conservative nationalist, etc..) "America First" showed alliances can be unreliable, and Turkey’s removal from the F-35 program proves US access is conditional
Never forget 1971, Nixon flexed U.S. naval muscle against India (Russia shut it down), while Trump mirrors (even dwarfs) Nixon’s authoritarian-leaning playbook—same GOP
Let alone comparing anything with China they are on a whole different level.
所以你的意思是說，印度最好的選擇是把自己拴在對美國供應(yīng)鏈具有維護(hù)依賴性且受政治控制的鏈條上，僅僅因?yàn)?F-35（我們有自己的國防技術(shù)，但是 F-35 是完全不同的——不僅僅是一架戰(zhàn)斗機(jī)，還是一個(gè)由美國控制的生態(tài)系統(tǒng)）在軍事演習(xí)中表現(xiàn)出色嗎？日本、韓國和澳大利亞都有美國駐軍（你應(yīng)該知道這意味著什么）和共同防御條約，這意味著他們對 F-35 的使用權(quán)是有保障的。
印度呢？差得遠(yuǎn)呢。土耳其僅僅因?yàn)橘徺I了 S-400 就被踢出局了——如果印度做了華盛頓不喜歡的事情，會發(fā)生什么？
“陣風(fēng)”在軍事演習(xí)中被“殲滅”了？ 是對抗哪個(gè)型號的 F-35 呢？ 因?yàn)樵诂F(xiàn)實(shí)世界中，“陣風(fēng)”在空戰(zhàn)中的機(jī)動性和火力都優(yōu)于 F-35（可以查看阿聯(lián)酋的聯(lián)合演習(xí)報(bào)告）。F-35 的優(yōu)勢在于聯(lián)網(wǎng)作戰(zhàn)（完全由美國控制），而不是作為一架單獨(dú)的戰(zhàn)斗機(jī)。當(dāng)然，沒有哪個(gè)國家能得到能使其占據(jù)主導(dǎo)地位的完整生態(tài)系統(tǒng)。
蘇-57？沒錯(cuò)，俄羅斯的可靠性值得懷疑，《以制裁反擊美國敵人法案》也是個(gè)擔(dān)憂。但是至少俄羅斯不會因?yàn)?“政策原因” 突然切斷備件供應(yīng)，而且我們也有過合作歷史。即使只有 60% 的蘇-30 是印度制造的，也比每一步升級和維修都要 100% 依賴美國批準(zhǔn)要好得多。
關(guān)于“戰(zhàn)略自主性”——有趣的是，人們在意識到 F-35 會讓一個(gè)國家在多大程度上依賴美國的善意之前，總是輕視它。F-22 被禁止出口，正是因?yàn)槊绹幌Ｍ緡婈?duì)之外存在真正的空中優(yōu)勢戰(zhàn)機(jī)。
F-35 “僅僅存在”就能作為一種威懾力量？沒錯(cuò)，美國的優(yōu)勢在臺灣（地區(qū)）/巴基斯坦身上發(fā)揮了很大的作用，是吧？
印度需要的是本土解決方案（AMCA）、在升級改造上實(shí)現(xiàn)自力更生（“陣風(fēng)”戰(zhàn)斗機(jī)）以及聰明的外交手段，而不是一款附帶租賃/約束協(xié)議，偽裝成軍售交易的炫酷戰(zhàn)機(jī)。
F-35 是尖端武器，但安全不僅僅是硬件的問題。特朗普 2.0（共和黨保守派民族主義者先生等等）的 “美國優(yōu)先” 政策表明其作為盟友是不可靠的，土耳其被 F-35 項(xiàng)目除名也證明了美國提供的支持是有條件的。
永遠(yuǎn)不要忘記 1971 年，尼克松動用美國海軍力量威脅印度（而蘇聯(lián)制止了它），特朗普在以DC傾向手段對待盟友方面，甚至和尼克松如出一轍——都是共和黨人！
更別提把任何武器與中國做對比了，他們已經(jīng)不是一個(gè)級別了。
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shouldn't buy because they are super expensive. we won't get to learn how to make them. we will rely too much on others for parts and maintenance. they are still a bit of a gamble and they don't really fit our needs. plus it will take money away from our own defense projects
不應(yīng)該購買，因?yàn)樗鼈儍r(jià)格極其昂貴。我們無法從中學(xué)習(xí)到制造技術(shù)，我們在零部件和維護(hù)方面會過度依賴其他國家。它們?nèi)匀痪哂匈€博的性質(zhì)，并且并不真正符合我們的需求。此外，購買F-35會減少對我們自身國防項(xiàng)目的資金投入。