為什么美國(guó)突然對(duì)向印度出售F-35戰(zhàn)斗機(jī)感興趣？（二）
Why is the US suddenly interested in selling F-35 fighter jets to India?
譯文簡(jiǎn)介
網(wǎng)友：我真的不太明白印度購(gòu)買這些戰(zhàn)斗機(jī)背后的邏輯，是為了對(duì)抗巴基斯坦嗎？
其實(shí)根本沒有這個(gè)必要，因?yàn)橛《饶壳暗能娛履芰σ呀?jīng)明顯優(yōu)于巴基斯坦。
正文翻譯
Why is the US suddenly interested in selling F-35 fighter jets to India?
為什么美國(guó)突然對(duì)向印度出售F-35戰(zhàn)斗機(jī)感興趣？
為什么美國(guó)突然對(duì)向印度出售F-35戰(zhàn)斗機(jī)感興趣？
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I don’t really understand the rationale behind India purchasing these fighter jets. Is it to counter Pakistan?
There’s really no need for that, as India’s current military capabilities already have a clear advantage over Pakistan.
As for China, it makes even less sense. For countries of the size and scale of China and India, the outcome of a conflict wouldn’t be determined by just a few aircraft.
Lastly, based on the Indian Air Force's record of aviation accidents, at its peak, there was a crash roughly every month. I don't believe India has the capacity to properly maintain these fighter jets.
我真的不太明白印度購(gòu)買這些戰(zhàn)斗機(jī)背后的邏輯，是為了對(duì)抗巴基斯坦嗎？
其實(shí)根本沒有這個(gè)必要，因?yàn)橛《饶壳暗能娛履芰σ呀?jīng)明顯優(yōu)于巴基斯坦。
至于（對(duì)抗）中國(guó)，這更是毫無意義。對(duì)于中國(guó)和印度這樣規(guī)模的國(guó)家，沖突的結(jié)果不可能僅僅由幾架戰(zhàn)斗機(jī)決定。
最后，根據(jù)印度空軍的航空事故記錄，在最糟糕的時(shí)候，幾乎每個(gè)月都會(huì)發(fā)生一次墜機(jī)事故。我不認(rèn)為印度具備妥善維護(hù)這些戰(zhàn)斗機(jī)的能力。
China offered to sell Pakistani it's stealth fighter jets. Putting india at a disadvantage. India needs to balance out the power. Second, India wants to promote indigenous production of fighter jets and hence it's hasn't been able to replace the old soviet era fighter jets like mig-21 bison. That's the reason their are crashes. modern fighter jets have rarely crashed. So I don't know what propaganda you read but India has reasons.
中國(guó)提出向巴基斯坦出售隱形戰(zhàn)斗機(jī)，這讓印度處于劣勢(shì)。印度需要通過購(gòu)買先進(jìn)戰(zhàn)斗機(jī)來平衡這種力量對(duì)比。其次，印度希望推動(dòng)國(guó)產(chǎn)戰(zhàn)斗機(jī)的生產(chǎn)，但尚未能替換掉像米格-21“野牛”這樣的老式蘇聯(lián)時(shí)期戰(zhàn)斗機(jī)，這才是墜機(jī)事故頻發(fā)的原因。現(xiàn)代戰(zhàn)斗機(jī)很少發(fā)生墜毀事故。我不知道你讀了什么宣傳內(nèi)容，但印度的采購(gòu)是有合理理由的。
Atleast Indian Airforce is honestly reporting every crash since 1947 that amounted to roughly 2000 aircrafts . Don’t except Chinese PLAAN or Pakistani PAF to be that brutally honest in admitting their failings unlike the Indians.
至少印度空軍自1947年以來一直在誠(chéng)實(shí)地報(bào)告每一次墜機(jī)事故，總共約有2000架飛機(jī)墜毀。相比之下，別指望中國(guó)解放軍空軍或巴基斯坦空軍會(huì)像印度這樣坦誠(chéng)地承認(rèn)自己的失誤。
你就是典型的無能的印度人，無能的印度軍隊(duì)，包括他的飛機(jī)，就是全世界的笑話。
It’s a part of Trump’s plan to reverse trade deficits against most major economies. By selling F-35s to India, it ensures a nice deal for the USA’s military industrial complex, while reducing the USA’s trade deficit with India (increase USA’s exports to India relative to imports, currently they import more from India than they export to us).
這是特朗普計(jì)劃的一部分，旨在扭轉(zhuǎn)美國(guó)與大多數(shù)主要經(jīng)濟(jì)體的貿(mào)易逆差。向印度出售F-35戰(zhàn)斗機(jī)，既能確保美國(guó)軍工復(fù)合體獲得一筆可觀的交易，又能減少美國(guó)與印度的貿(mào)易逆差（通過增加美國(guó)對(duì)印度的出口，而不是進(jìn)口。目前美國(guó)從印度進(jìn)口的商品多于其出口到印度的商品）。
US is not suddenly interested in selling F-35 to india since long back US is planning to sell F35 to India but hesitates as indian have s400.
Selling F-35 to india will a very big geopolitical win for USA as there is a unofficial policy of india to not buy american fighter jet. Selling F35 will make US defence manufacturers get multi billion doller contract and will able to make more india dependent for defense need from USA.
美國(guó)并非突然對(duì)向印度出售F-35感興趣。長(zhǎng)期以來，美國(guó)一直計(jì)劃向印度出售F-35，但由于印度擁有S-400防空系統(tǒng)，美國(guó)一直猶豫不決。
向印度出售F-35將為美國(guó)帶來巨大的地緣政治勝利，因?yàn)橛《扔幸豁?xiàng)非正式政策，即不購(gòu)買美國(guó)戰(zhàn)斗機(jī)。出售F-35將使美國(guó)防務(wù)制造商獲得數(shù)十億美元的合同，并進(jìn)一步使印度在防務(wù)需求上依賴美國(guó)。
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I am reading posts that F-35 is trash and riddled with problems, apparently based on information available on Google search
Hardly a way to assess the merits/demerits of an aircraft
I know nothing about the technicalities of any aircraft, civil or military and as such will skip any discussion on this
我看到一些帖子稱F-35是垃圾，存在諸多問題，這些說法顯然是基于谷歌搜索得到的信息。
但這絕不是評(píng)估一架飛機(jī)優(yōu)缺點(diǎn)的合理方式。
我對(duì)任何民用或軍用飛機(jī)的技術(shù)細(xì)節(jié)一無所知，因此我將跳過這方面的討論。
The US wants India to fork out USD 50 billion quickly to bring their trade balance with India under control
This cannot be achieved through conventional exports by the US, be it bourbon or Harley Davidson bikes
It requires an import by India of a genuine big ticket item, which will balance out the trade deficit in favour of the US or at least bring parity
It is a business deal, guised as military support and assistance
India is under no compulsion to buy F-35s. It is only a condescending offer, considering the rave publicity the F-35 has received lately, whether through US propaganda or actual performance
印度空軍中有一些非常優(yōu)秀的專家，他們肯定會(huì)從各個(gè)角度分析美國(guó)的這一提議。至于美國(guó)為何希望向印度出售這些飛機(jī)，這正是這個(gè)問題的核心所在。
美國(guó)希望印度迅速支付500億美元，以控制與印度的貿(mào)易平衡。通過傳統(tǒng)的美國(guó)出口商品，無論是波旁威士忌還是哈雷戴維森摩托車，都無法實(shí)現(xiàn)這一目標(biāo)。
這需要印度進(jìn)口真正的“大件商品”，以平衡貿(mào)易逆差，至少實(shí)現(xiàn)貿(mào)易平衡。這是一筆商業(yè)交易，偽裝成軍事支持和援助。
印度沒有購(gòu)買F-35的義務(wù)。鑒于F-35最近受到的大量宣傳，無論是通過美國(guó)的宣傳還是實(shí)際性能，這只是一個(gè)屈尊俯就的提議
The Rafale deal was good at the time it was entered into, but the time has arrived to go a step further ahead
The other options available at the moment are Chinese/Turkish aircraft, both which are non-starters for India anyway
I am not considering our home grown variety, which seems to be perpetually at the planning and design stage with a few prototypes being put on display now and then
The IAF is already 10–12 squadrons down and there seems to be no urgency to fulfill our requirement of 114 aircrafts, which has often been declared as an immediate need
印度確實(shí)需要5代/6代戰(zhàn)斗機(jī)，以與中國(guó)平起平坐。陣風(fēng)戰(zhàn)斗機(jī)在當(dāng)時(shí)是一個(gè)不錯(cuò)的選擇，但現(xiàn)在是時(shí)候更進(jìn)一步了。
目前可用的其他選擇是中國(guó)和土耳其的戰(zhàn)斗機(jī)，但這些對(duì)印度來說都是不可行的。
我不考慮我們自主研發(fā)的型號(hào)，它似乎永遠(yuǎn)停留在規(guī)劃和設(shè)計(jì)階段，偶爾展示一些原型機(jī)。
印度空軍已經(jīng)減少了10到12個(gè)中隊(duì)，似乎沒有緊迫感去滿足我們對(duì)114架飛機(jī)的需求，這常常被宣布為一項(xiàng)迫切需要。
Thus, we have to weigh the pros and cons of indigenous manufacture and outside purchase, as our lack of clarity and speed in decision making, is giving our enemies a decided advantage
It is true that Russia has been our trusted supplier for long and our Airforce ecosystem is built largely around it. To disturb this ecosystem will be fraught with risk and financially ruinous. As such, if Russia has a comparable product, we should take a closer look at it, rather than waiting indefinitely for our Make in India programme to fructify
印度空軍對(duì)印度斯坦航空有限公司（HAL）的緩慢進(jìn)展公開表示不滿，似乎沒有替代方案來信任我們大肆宣傳的“印度制造”計(jì)劃。
因此，我們必須權(quán)衡自主研發(fā)和外部采購(gòu)的利弊，因?yàn)槲覀冊(cè)跊Q策上的缺乏明確性和速度，這給了我們的敵人一個(gè)決定性的優(yōu)勢(shì)。
確實(shí)，俄羅斯長(zhǎng)期以來一直是我們的可靠供應(yīng)商，我們的空軍生態(tài)系統(tǒng)也主要圍繞它構(gòu)建。擾亂這一生態(tài)系統(tǒng)將充滿風(fēng)險(xiǎn)，且在經(jīng)濟(jì)上可能是毀滅性的。因此，如果俄羅斯有類似的產(chǎn)品，我們應(yīng)該更仔細(xì)地考慮，而不是無限期地等待我們的“印度制造”計(jì)劃取得成果。
原創(chuàng)翻譯：龍騰網(wǎng) http://m.top-shui.cn 轉(zhuǎn)載請(qǐng)注明出處
The F-35, offer in short is an arm twisting tactic employed by the US to address their trade concern vis a vis India and we have to assess whether we have the resilience to counter it or not
如果我們拒絕F-35，美國(guó)可能會(huì)征收關(guān)稅，我們必須為此做好準(zhǔn)備。
簡(jiǎn)而言之，F(xiàn)-35的提議是美國(guó)為解決與印度的貿(mào)易問題而采取的一種施壓手段，我們必須評(píng)估自己是否有足夠的韌性來應(yīng)對(duì)它。
原創(chuàng)翻譯：龍騰網(wǎng) http://m.top-shui.cn 轉(zhuǎn)載請(qǐng)注明出處
Not the US , but Mr. Trump personally & surely wants to do it. Since his trick of deporting shackled & handcuffed Indians illegally staying or trying to intrude in US has failed Indian govt. to take the cost upon themselves. Hence the exorbitant cost of catching illegal Indian, maintaining & deporting them has to be somehow recovered from the Indian Govt. & the best way is thru these kind of business dealing. Remember how Trump previously boasted about a statement of building a wall at the Mexican border to fend off the illegal immigrants & make Mexico pay for the same.
不是美國(guó)政府，而是特朗普先生本人，他肯定想這么做。 自從他驅(qū)逐那些非法滯留或試圖進(jìn)入美國(guó)的印度人（這些人被戴上手銬和腳鐐）的伎倆失敗后，印度政府拒絕承擔(dān)相關(guān)費(fèi)用。因此，抓捕非法印度人、維持其生活并將其驅(qū)逐出境的高昂成本，必須通過某種方式從印度政府那里收回，而最好的方式就是通過這類商業(yè)交易。還記得特朗普之前吹噓要在美墨邊境建墻以阻擋非法移民，并讓墨西哥為此買單嗎？
特朗普先生在埃隆·馬斯克的建議下，希望淘汰F-35戰(zhàn)斗機(jī)。 馬斯克認(rèn)為，與現(xiàn)代無人機(jī)、高超音速導(dǎo)彈和太空技術(shù)相比，F(xiàn)-35不過是一種昂貴的垃圾，而后者在他看來更具未來感。因此，通過削減飛機(jī)公司的業(yè)務(wù)和政府補(bǔ)貼，他希望美國(guó)政府專注于支持、推廣并資助他的SpaceX業(yè)務(wù)，這也將確保特朗普的注意力完全集中在他身上。
現(xiàn)在，特朗普可能希望通過將F-35出售給印度，并通過每年的維護(hù)（包括備件、培訓(xùn)等）從印度那里收回開發(fā)成本，并補(bǔ)償F-35制造商洛克希德·馬丁公司。 表面上看，這也可以被宣傳為加強(qiáng)印美防務(wù)關(guān)系與合作的新時(shí)代，仿佛只有印度才是這種五代機(jī)技術(shù)的受益者，并且能夠與中國(guó)五代機(jī)相抗衡。盡管事實(shí)是，這就像在你的破舊小屋外停了一輛勞斯萊斯。（這就是購(gòu)買、訓(xùn)練和維護(hù)這些F-35的最理想結(jié)果。）
另一個(gè)事實(shí)是，由于沒有技術(shù)轉(zhuǎn)讓，印度需要承擔(dān)在中印和印巴邊境操作這種所謂的高科技飛機(jī)的成本（一次飛行的成本約為130萬印度盧比）。 這些飛行可以收集有關(guān)這些地區(qū)軍事和防務(wù)發(fā)展/部署的重要數(shù)據(jù)，同時(shí)也可以將這些飛機(jī)在這些地形中的性能/參數(shù)數(shù)據(jù)傳回美國(guó)的服務(wù)器。這些參數(shù)可以幫助重新定義/調(diào)整飛機(jī)的航空電子設(shè)備、飛行部件、參數(shù)和整體性能。 這也可以成為他們未來有人/無人飛機(jī)發(fā)展的關(guān)鍵要素。而所有這些可能都要印度來承擔(dān)成本和風(fēng)險(xiǎn)。
Though Mr. Trump may be wanting to force a bargain dealing this for the businessman & our govt, official trapped by them is yet to be seen.
But what Mr. Trumps fails to understand is there are more crooked business men in India far what the US can think of & handle, putting them in serious entanglement.
此外，特朗普先生很清楚，印度通過繞過制裁、從俄羅斯和伊朗購(gòu)買廉價(jià)石油并將其賣給歐洲賺了不少錢。 現(xiàn)在美國(guó)希望通過出售這些“白象”（指昂貴且無用的東西）來分一杯羹。
盡管特朗普可能試圖強(qiáng)迫達(dá)成這筆交易，但我們的政府是否會(huì)被困其中還有待觀察。
然而，特朗普先生沒有意識(shí)到的是，印度的商人比美國(guó)能想到的還要狡猾得多，這可能會(huì)讓他們陷入嚴(yán)重的困境。
The decision for India to acquire the F-35 aircraft from the United States to counterbalance China's Chengdu J-20 or J-35 planes is a complex one, involving strategic, economic, and geopolitical considerations. Here are some key points to consider:
問題：“印度是否應(yīng)該從美國(guó)采購(gòu)F-35戰(zhàn)斗機(jī)以制衡中國(guó)的成都?xì)?20或殲-35飛機(jī)？”
印度從美國(guó)采購(gòu)F-35戰(zhàn)斗機(jī)以制衡中國(guó)的成都?xì)?20或殲-35飛機(jī)是一個(gè)復(fù)雜的決定，涉及戰(zhàn)略、經(jīng)濟(jì)和地緣政治因素。以下是需要考慮的一些關(guān)鍵點(diǎn)：
Technological Edge: The F-35 is a fifth-generation multirole stealth fighter with advanced avionics, sensor fusion, and network-centric warfare capabilities. It could provide India with a significant technological edge over China's J-20 and J-35, which are also fifth-generation fighters but may have different operational capabilities and limitations.
戰(zhàn)略因素：
技術(shù)優(yōu)勢(shì)： F-35是一款第五代多功能隱身戰(zhàn)斗機(jī)，具備先進(jìn)的航空電子設(shè)備、傳感器融合和網(wǎng)絡(luò)中心戰(zhàn)能力。它可能使印度在技術(shù)上對(duì)中國(guó)殲-20和殲-35形成顯著優(yōu)勢(shì)，盡管后兩者也是第五代戰(zhàn)斗機(jī)，但可能在作戰(zhàn)能力和限制方面有所不同。
Deterrence: The presence of F-35s in the Indian Air Force could serve as a strong deterrent against C aggression, particularly in contested regions like the Line of Actual Control (LAC) and the Indian Ocean Region (IOR).
互操作性： 采購(gòu)F-35可能增強(qiáng)印度與美國(guó)和北約部隊(duì)的互操作性，這在聯(lián)合行動(dòng)和情報(bào)共享中可能非常有利。這在“四方安全對(duì)話”（印度、美國(guó)、日本、澳大利亞）和其他旨在制衡中國(guó)在印太地區(qū)影響力的多邊倡議中尤為重要。
威懾力： 印度空軍裝備F-35可能對(duì)C的侵略行為形成強(qiáng)大威懾，尤其是在實(shí)際控制線（LAC）和印度洋地區(qū)（IOR）等爭(zhēng)議地區(qū)。
Cost: The F-35 is an expensive platform, both in terms of acquisition and lifecycle costs. India would need to weigh the benefits against the financial burden, especially given the need to modernize other branches of its military and address domestic economic challenges.
Indigenous Development: India has been investing in its own fifth-generation fighter program, the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA). Acquiring the F-35 could either complement or compete with this indigenous effort, depending on how it is integrated into India's broader defense strategy.
經(jīng)濟(jì)因素：
成本： F-35是一個(gè)昂貴的平臺(tái)，無論是采購(gòu)成本還是全生命周期成本都很高。印度需要權(quán)衡其帶來的好處與經(jīng)濟(jì)負(fù)擔(dān)，尤其是考慮到還需要現(xiàn)代化其他軍種并解決國(guó)內(nèi)經(jīng)濟(jì)挑戰(zhàn)。
國(guó)產(chǎn)發(fā)展： 印度一直在投資自己的第五代戰(zhàn)斗機(jī)項(xiàng)目，即先進(jìn)中型戰(zhàn)斗機(jī)（AMCA）。采購(gòu)F-35可能會(huì)與這一國(guó)產(chǎn)努力相輔相成，也可能產(chǎn)生競(jìng)爭(zhēng)，這取決于它如何融入印度的總體國(guó)防戰(zhàn)略。
U.S.-India Relations: Purchasing the F-35 could further strengthen the strategic partnership between India and the United States. However, it could also complicate relations with Russia, which has been a traditional supplier of military hardware to India, including the S-400 air defense system.
地緣政治因素：
美印關(guān)系： 采購(gòu)F-35可能進(jìn)一步加強(qiáng)印美戰(zhàn)略伙伴關(guān)系。然而，這也可能使印度與俄羅斯的關(guān)系復(fù)雜化，因?yàn)槎砹_斯一直是印度軍事裝備的傳統(tǒng)供應(yīng)商——包括S-400防空系統(tǒng)。
Technology Transfer and Sovereignty: Any deal for the F-35 would likely come with stringent conditions regarding technology transfer, usage, and maintenance. India would need to ensure that these conditions do not compromise its strategic autonomy.
地區(qū)動(dòng)態(tài)： 采購(gòu)F-35可能加劇地區(qū)緊張局勢(shì)，尤其是與中國(guó)和巴基斯坦的關(guān)系。這可能導(dǎo)致地區(qū)軍備競(jìng)賽，對(duì)地區(qū)穩(wěn)定產(chǎn)生潛在影響。
技術(shù)轉(zhuǎn)讓與主權(quán)： 任何關(guān)于F-35的交易都可能附帶嚴(yán)格的技術(shù)轉(zhuǎn)讓、使用和維護(hù)條件。印度需要確保這些條件不會(huì)損害其戰(zhàn)略自主權(quán)。
Infrastructure and Training: The F-35 requires significant infrastructure and training to operate effectively. India would need to invest in new facilities, training programs, and logistics chains to support the aircraft.
Maintenance and Support: The F-35's advanced technology requires specialized maintenance and support, which could be a challenge for India's existing defense infrastructure. Long-term support agreements with the U.S. would be crucial.
作戰(zhàn)因素：
基礎(chǔ)設(shè)施和培訓(xùn)： F-35需要大量基礎(chǔ)設(shè)施和培訓(xùn)才能有效運(yùn)行。印度需要投資建設(shè)新的設(shè)施、培訓(xùn)計(jì)劃和后勤鏈來支持這種飛機(jī)。
維護(hù)與支持： F-35的先進(jìn)技術(shù)需要專門的維護(hù)和支持，這可能對(duì)印度現(xiàn)有的國(guó)防基礎(chǔ)設(shè)施構(gòu)成挑戰(zhàn)。與美國(guó)的長(zhǎng)期支持協(xié)議至關(guān)重要。
While the F-35 could provide India with a significant strategic advantage, the decision to acquire it must be carefully weighed against economic, geopolitical, and operational considerations. India would need to ensure that such a move aligns with its broader defense strategy, enhances its strategic autonomy, and does not lead to unintended regional escalations. Additionally, the potential impact on indigenous defense programs and relations with other key partners like Russia must be thoroughly uated.
結(jié)論：
盡管F-35可能為印度帶來顯著的戰(zhàn)略優(yōu)勢(shì)，但采購(gòu)這一戰(zhàn)斗機(jī)的決定必須謹(jǐn)慎權(quán)衡經(jīng)濟(jì)、地緣政治和作戰(zhàn)因素。印度需要確保這一舉措符合其總體國(guó)防戰(zhàn)略，增強(qiáng)其戰(zhàn)略自主權(quán)，并且不會(huì)導(dǎo)致地區(qū)局勢(shì)意外升級(jí)。此外，對(duì)國(guó)產(chǎn)國(guó)防項(xiàng)目的影響以及與俄羅斯等關(guān)鍵伙伴的關(guān)系也需要進(jìn)行深入評(píng)估。