為什么圣經(jīng)里的上帝執(zhí)行所有這些“奇跡”，預(yù)兆等...但是現(xiàn)在他很沉默？
Why did the god of the Bible carry out all those "miracles", signs, etc... but now he is radio silent?
譯文簡介
因為他實際上不存在。
正文翻譯
Like, in the bible god (supposedly) did a bunch of stuff. Killed many in a global flood, changed the languages of humans, made a fish swallow Jonah, fire from heaven, resurrected (some) people, etc etc.... but now, nothing.................
比如說，在《圣經(jīng)》里，上帝（據(jù)稱）做了很多事。他發(fā)動了一場全球性的洪水，殺死了無數(shù)人；改變了人類的語言；讓一條魚吞下了約拿；從天上降下火焰；還復(fù)活了一些人，等等等等……但現(xiàn)在呢？什么都沒有了……完全靜悄悄的。
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If you want the Watsonian explanation, I might suggest looking for a christianity sub. Out here in the general reddit wilds, the answer is going to be simply that it's not real.
如果你想要一個華生式的解釋，我建議你去找一個基督教相關(guān)的子論壇。在這里，在Reddit的廣袤荒野中，答案很簡單：它不是真實的。
As an atheist, I understand the Christian answer is that you can continue to find miracles all around. A child who survives brain cancer. A single person alive in a town destroyed by a hurricane. A man manages to live on a raft stranded in the ocean for a week. To me these are signs, at best, of the pointless cruelty of god if one exists, but more likely just random luck and the tenacity of the human body to live.
作為一個無神論者，我理解基督徒的答案是，你可以繼續(xù)在周圍發(fā)現(xiàn)奇跡。一個從腦癌中幸存的孩子。颶風(fēng)摧毀的小鎮(zhèn)上唯一的幸存者。一個人在海上漂流一周后仍然活著。對我來說，如果存在上帝，這些最多只能說明上帝的無意義的殘酷；但更可能只是隨機的運氣和人類身體頑強求生的本能。
In other words god was happy to kill all the other kids with brain cancer, kill the rest of the town with a hurricane, drown anybody else stranded at sea
換句話說，上帝很高興讓所有其他患有腦癌的孩子死去，用颶風(fēng)殺死鎮(zhèn)上的其他人，淹死其他在海上漂流的人。
God was busy making touchdowns happen and making sure Jesus was visible on a random piece of bread.
上帝正忙著讓觸地得分發(fā)生，并確保耶穌的形象出現(xiàn)在一片隨機的面包上。
HMMm so true.
The rise of football and sliced bread has coincided with the drop in public miracles.
I think you are on to something. This must be a sign.
嗯，確實如此。
橄欖球的興起和切片面包的普及，與公共奇跡的減少同時發(fā)生。
我覺得你發(fā)現(xiàn)了什么。這一定是個征兆。
Exactly, but you know, one must look on the bright side of life
沒錯，但你知道，人必須看到生活中光明的一面。
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Lifes a piece of shit, when you look at it.
生活就是一坨屎，當(dāng)你仔細看它的時候。
So always look on the bright side of life.. doodo doodo dodo dodo
所以，總是要看到生活中光明的一面……嘟嘟嘟，嘟嘟嘟，嘟嘟嘟嘟。
Because he doesn’t exist
因為他根本不存在
exactly, but also no story in the bibble is written with first hand accounts of anything. It is hearsay on hearsay at best.
Let's look at the british royal fam...Lot. the city is destroyed, his wife turns to salt, his daughters rape him. (tldr version) ...for some reason there are statements by his daughters. The only people there were drunk Lot and his 2 daughters, it isn't like they would write in the third person if for some reason they were writing it down. So logically one of the daughters must have told this story to other people later in life who then wrote it down. This wouldn't be admissible in court because it is completely unreliable.
確實如此，但更重要的是，《圣經(jīng)》中的任何故事都不是以第一手資料寫成的。充其量只是傳聞中的傳聞。
讓我們看看英國王室的故事……羅得。城市被毀滅，他的妻子變成了鹽柱，他的女兒們強奸了他。（簡化版）……不知為何，故事中卻有他女兒們的陳述。當(dāng)時在場的只有醉酒的羅得和他的兩個女兒，如果他們真的寫下了這件事，也不會用第三人稱來寫。所以邏輯上，其中一個女兒一定是在后來將這個故事告訴了其他人，然后由這些人記錄下來。這在法庭上是不可采信的，因為它完全不可靠。
It’s like Chinese whispers I guess. Details change over time. But why would people lie about it in the first place?
這就像傳話游戲一樣。細節(jié)會隨著時間改變。但為什么人們一開始要撒謊呢？
This is obvious. The question was more curious about the christian explanation of it, how could it be explained within religion, to make it believable
這是顯而易見的。問題更多的是好奇基督教對此如何解釋，如何在宗教內(nèi)部解釋才能讓人信服。
The same reason people dont report as many ghosts/UFOs etc now so many of us have smart phones in our pockets
這和為什么現(xiàn)在人們報告幽靈/UFO的次數(shù)變少了一樣，畢竟我們口袋里都有智能手機了。
I dont know if you browse any ufo subreddits recently but sightings have significantly increased since smart phone cameras improved
我不知道你最近是否瀏覽過任何UFO相關(guān)的子論壇，但自從智能手機攝像頭改進后，目擊事件顯著增加了。
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sightings of the same nonsense they've always been. There is as much evidence for the existence of extra terrestrials as there is for any god, none.
目擊到的還是那些一直以來都存在的無稽之談。關(guān)于外星人存在的證據(jù)和關(guān)于任何神存在的證據(jù)一樣多——也就是零。
Unidentified Flying obxts and Extra-Terrestrials are not the same thing.
There is plenty of HD footage of UFOs available now. where they come from or how they are able to defy physics is the big question now, not whether they exist or not.
不明飛行物和外星人不是一回事。
現(xiàn)在有很多高清的UFO錄像。它們從何而來，或者它們?nèi)绾文軌蜻`背物理法則，才是現(xiàn)在的大問題，而不是它們是否存在。
Much like "Why are there fewer images of flying saucers now that everyone has a digital camera with them 24/7?"
Both are fantasies.
就像“為什么現(xiàn)在每個人全天候都帶著數(shù)碼相機，但飛碟的照片卻越來越少了”
兩者都是幻想。
I think this question fails to take into consideration the fact that the Bible is not a single book but many that was written by numerous individuals over hundreds of years.
So, All of these things he was said to do don't occur during a single point in time. Not even a single century really
我認為這個問題沒有考慮到一個事實，即《圣經(jīng)》并不是一本書，而是由許多人在數(shù)百年的時間里撰寫的多部作品的集合。
因此，所有這些關(guān)于他所做的事情的描述并不是發(fā)生在同一個時間點，甚至不是發(fā)生在同一個世紀。
In modern bible the story would be a "sickness that plague the entire world." Or "war machines that brings sadness and clears out entire cities"
在現(xiàn)代的《圣經(jīng)》中，這些故事可能會被描述為“一種席卷全球的瘟疫”或“帶來悲傷并摧毀整座城市的戰(zhàn)爭機器”。
If it's a "living text", why don't they keep adding these events to it?
如果它是一個“活著的文本”，為什么他們不繼續(xù)將這些事件添加到其中呢？
The biblical canon is closed, at least as far as Christianity (and most of the other Abrahamic religions) is concerned. There's a reason why Muhammad has the title "the seal of prophets", because in Islam he is the last one. The same applies to the apostles in the Bible.
The general idea simply is that God has said all that he wishes to say, and has no need to reiterate with new prophets and visions and revelations - everything you need for salvation has already been revealed to you, it's all there in the bible. Anything new, the idea goes, would simply be stating the same thing again.
As such no new books are added to the bible, as they'd all be works of man. However, you will find that there are a lot of people who write a lot of books on various modern events from a religious lense - it's simply not a divine lense, just their own perspective.
《圣經(jīng)》的正典已經(jīng)封閉，至少對基督教（以及大多數(shù)其他亞伯拉罕宗教）來說是如此。這就是為什么穆罕默德被稱為“封印先知”，因為在伊斯蘭教中，他是最后一位先知。同樣，這也適用于《圣經(jīng)》中的使徒們。
普遍的觀點是，上帝已經(jīng)說出了他想說的一切，沒有必要通過新的先知、異象和啟示來重復(fù)——所有你需要得救的信息都已經(jīng)向你揭示，一切都已在《圣經(jīng)》中。任何新的內(nèi)容，按照這種觀點，都只是重復(fù)已經(jīng)說過的東西。
因此，沒有新的書籍被添加到《圣經(jīng)》中，因為它們都將是人類的作品。然而，你會發(fā)現(xiàn)有很多人從宗教的角度撰寫了許多關(guān)于現(xiàn)代事件的書籍——只不過這些并不是神圣的視角，而是他們自己的觀點。
I find it odd that when someone survives an catastrophic or weird event its a miracle but when someone dies in a weird unlikely event its not a miracle they died.
我覺得很奇怪，當(dāng)有人從災(zāi)難性或離奇的事件中幸存下來時，這被稱為奇跡；但當(dāng)有人在不太可能發(fā)生的離奇事件中死亡時，他們的死亡卻不被稱為奇跡。
Well... ...
嗯……
God did a lot of killing back in the day and it was miraculous. Depends on what side of the sword you were on.
上帝在過去做了很多殺戮，而這些都被認為是奇跡。這取決于你站在劍的哪一邊。
The dumbest logic I've heard in recent history is when the Notre Dame fire burned all the wooden relics but the METAL cross survived by miracle. Like bitch, do you know how fire works?
我最近聽過的最愚蠢的邏輯是，當(dāng)巴黎圣母院火災(zāi)燒毀了所有木質(zhì)遺物時，金屬十字架卻奇跡般地幸存了下來。拜托，你了解火是怎么工作的嗎？
The answer on Reddit is "it's not real" because it's not. Let's be honest. These are stories human beings made up to explain parts of the human experience we can't explain.
Unfortunately we have large numbers of people who blindly believe in these stories and are willing to do crazy things because of them... Just sad.
在Reddit上的答案是“這不是真的”，因為它確實不是。老實說，這些故事是人類編造出來的，用來解釋我們無法理解的人類經(jīng)驗。
不幸的是，有大量的人盲目相信這些故事，并愿意為此做出瘋狂的事情……真是可悲。
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I think OP wants to know the Christian rationalisation.
我認為樓主想知道的是基督教的合理化解釋。
The person youre replying to is clearly either aware of that.
你回復(fù)的那個人顯然已經(jīng)意識到了這一點。
IMO biblical stories should be interpreted as a lesson or to teach something rather than taken literally.
在我看來，《圣經(jīng)》故事應(yīng)該被解讀為一種教訓(xùn)或教導(dǎo)，而不是字面意義上的真實事件。
That's fair as long as it's applied to all religions.
只要這種觀點適用于所有宗教，那就是公平的。
None of them are real for the same reason.
它們都不是真實的，原因都一樣。
Hey I used to think a lot like you, but I've since realized that acting condescending towards religious folks gets absolutely nowhere. You get angrier, they retreat back into their beliefs, nobody gets helped.
It's a lot better to just do your thing, and let them do their thing. Don't challenge people's beliefs, that does not work. Instead, try to change their beliefs by actively demonstrating that non-believers can be good people
Religion as an institution gets used to push many beliefs I strongly disagree with, but so do lots of other institutions, like 24 hour news, or Facebook. Yes, there's bad people in any given religious organization, just like there's bad people on Facebook. The vast majority are not bad people though; they're just struggling along trying to do the best they can
嘿，我曾經(jīng)也像你這樣想，但后來我意識到，對宗教人士表現(xiàn)出居高臨下的態(tài)度毫無意義。你會變得更憤怒，而他們會更加固守自己的信仰，最終沒有人得到幫助。
更好的做法是，你做你的事，讓他們做他們的事。不要挑戰(zhàn)別人的信仰，這行不通。相反，試著通過實際行動展示非信徒也可以是好人，從而改變他們的觀念。
宗教作為一種制度，被用來推行許多我強烈反對的觀念，但其他許多制度也是如此，比如24小時新聞或Facebook。是的，任何宗教組織中都有壞人，就像Facebook上也有壞人一樣。但絕大多數(shù)人并不是壞人；他們只是在努力做到最好，盡力應(yīng)對生活中的挑戰(zhàn)。
I would love to leave them in peace, regretfully they are religious and I am gay. If I just leave them do their thing the natural outcome is conversion therapy at best or throwing me from the highest building at worst.
我很想讓他們安靜地生活，但遺憾的是，他們是宗教信徒，而我是同性戀。如果我放任他們做他們的事，最好的結(jié)果可能是讓我接受“轉(zhuǎn)化治療”，最壞的結(jié)果可能是把我從最高的建筑上扔下去。
Religious people "doing their thing" often leads to great harm to everyone else just "doing their thing>"
宗教人士“做他們的事”往往會對其他“做他們的事”的人造成巨大的傷害。
I am not a biblical scholar, but Ive asked similar questions while in Catholic school (trying to trip up the priest) and during my later in life Catechism classes.
First, the entirety of the Bible is made up of smaller books that were written by different men throughout the centuries.
So the time span between miracles is not automatically questionable.
Second, the people who wrote these books, wrote them to people who listened or DID NOT listen to their warnings and then recorded the subsequent actions.
In other words, God could be taking to new prophets and the rest of the world is ignoring them. A good example is the comparison of Lot warning Sodom and Joann of Arc warning France.
Joan is now considered a Saint and her story is most definitely miraculous. But no one wants to write her story into the Bible.
Third, for many the point of the Old Testament was to lay the groundwork for the Messiah. The New Testament was to tell the story of the Messiah, relate his messages with his miracles, and to now tell the world how to go forward.
There is no more need to provide miracles to prove Gods existence, now it is up to man ti have faith and follow the path that was laid out in the Bible...
TO INCLUDE REVELATIONS.
Fourth, Which is where we are supposed to look for the signs.
Again, I am not a biblical scholar and my faith has been shaken and skewed and downright broken these past few years. But this is what I have been able to compile.
我不是圣經(jīng)學(xué)者，但我在天主教學(xué)校（試圖難倒神父）以及后來的教理課上問過類似的問題。
首先，整本《圣經(jīng)》是由不同世紀的不同人撰寫的多部小書組成的。
因此，奇跡之間的時間跨度并非一定存在疑問。
其次，撰寫這些書的人是為那些聽從或沒有聽從他們警告的人寫的，并記錄了隨后的行動。
換句話說，上帝可能正在與新先知對話，而世界上的其他人卻在忽視他們。一個很好的例子是羅得警告所多瑪和圣女貞德警告法國的對比。
貞德現(xiàn)在被視為圣人，她的故事絕對是一個奇跡。但沒有人想把她的故事寫進《圣經(jīng)》。
第三，對許多人來說，《舊約》的目的是為彌賽亞的到來奠定基礎(chǔ)?！缎录s》則是講述彌賽亞的故事，將他的信息與奇跡聯(lián)系起來，并告訴世界如何繼續(xù)前進。
現(xiàn)在不再需要提供奇跡來證明上帝的存在，現(xiàn)在輪到人類通過信仰跟隨《圣經(jīng)》中所鋪設(shè)的道路前行了....包括《啟示錄》。
第四，這也是我們應(yīng)該尋找預(yù)兆的地方。
再次聲明，我不是圣經(jīng)學(xué)者，而且過去幾年我的信仰已經(jīng)動搖、扭曲甚至徹底破碎。但這些是我能夠整理出來的答案。
These are interesting arguments. We're bombarded with fake and staged material. We'd just yawn and scroll if we saw a "miracle".
Disclaimer: I am an agnostic.
這些論點很有趣。我們被虛假和擺拍的材料轟炸。如果我們看到一個“奇跡”，我們只會打個哈欠然后繼續(xù)刷屏。
免責(zé)聲明：我是一個不可知論者。
I mean they test miracles all the time and 100% of the time theyve had logical natural explanations
我的意思是，他們一直在測試奇跡，而100%的情況下，這些奇跡都有合乎邏輯的自然解釋。
It's all about interpretation. For example, a lot of plane crashes had happened recently. You could interpret that as the God punishing people. Or the L.A. fire. Or some other disaster. If you believe it, then God did it
這完全取決于解釋。例如，最近發(fā)生了很多飛機墜毀事件。你可以將其解釋為上帝在懲罰人們。或者洛杉磯的火災(zāi)?；蛘咂渌麨?zāi)難。如果你相信，那就是上帝做的。
right, but recently, god has been punishing people left and right, but we don't see a lot of rewarding people.
沒錯，但最近上帝一直到處懲罰人們，但我們卻沒有看到很多人得到獎勵。
I heard Israel has secured peace deal with Hamas. See, God is rewarding people with peace! All about interpretation I say
我聽說以色列已經(jīng)與哈馬斯達成了和平協(xié)議。看，上帝正在用和平獎勵人們！我說了，這完全取決于如何解釋。
Until Hamas has no hostages left
直到哈馬斯手里沒有人質(zhì)了再說吧。
In a nutshell:
1.it's easier to have miracles when we don't understand most things. Lighting from the sky? Miracle! Earthquakes? God's fury!
2.No fact checking. Write what you want, no one to question you.
3.Hallucinogenic drugs were likely involved, unknowingly or not, in a lot of those stories.
簡而言之：
1.當(dāng)我們對大多數(shù)事物都不了解時，奇跡更容易被接受。天空中的閃電？奇跡！地震？上帝的憤怒！
2.沒有事實核查。想寫什么就寫什么，沒有人會質(zhì)疑你。
3.在許多這些故事中，可能無意或有意地涉及了致幻藥物。
You actually believe shit written down by men over 1000 years ago now then creatively editted a few dozen times... sliced diced... smacked around...
That you can believe anything 3000 years ago beyond myth and metaphor for our ancestors and species?
It is truly relevant from a historical perspective...
Why scared bastards believe this shit in 2025 or any recent time is baffeling and lord of the rings was more entertaining...
So if JRR Tolkien does better than gods... maybe you just need one ring...
你真的相信那些1000多年前由人類寫下的，而且經(jīng)過了幾十次的創(chuàng)造性編輯……被剪切、拼接、修改、甚至扭曲過的東西嗎？
你真的能相信3000年前的東西不僅僅是神話和隱喻，而是關(guān)于我們祖先和物種的真實記錄嗎？
從歷史的角度來看，這些東西確實有一定的相關(guān)性……
為什么一些膽小的家伙在2025年或任何近代仍然相信這些東西，真讓人費解，而且，《指環(huán)王》可比這些有趣多了……
所以，如果J.R.R. 托爾金的作品比上帝的故事更吸引人……也許你只需要一枚戒指就夠了……
I think that most biblical stories has some root in reality but that the original event has been twisted to suit the narrative. Take the Great Flood for instance, it could very well be based on an actual flood where someone saw a farmer rescuing his livestock in a boat thereby saving his family. So if you take something recent as an example, let’s say the tsunami in Thailand in 2004. If I was a religious scribe and I wanted to write a story about man’s proclivity for sin and God’s wrath in the face of it, that event would be a perfect example. Then it could be twisted either way; all the sinners dead or the miracle of all believers survived. Mind also that biblical events span several centuries, it’s not as if it depicts miracles as a regular thing.
我認為大多數(shù)圣經(jīng)故事都有一定的現(xiàn)實基礎(chǔ)，但原始事件可能被扭曲以適應(yīng)特定的敘事需求。以大洪水為例，它很可能基于一場真實的洪水事件，有人看到一位農(nóng)民用船救了他的牲畜，從而拯救了他的家人。所以，如果我們拿最近的事件舉例，比如2004年泰國的海嘯。如果我是一個宗教抄寫員，想寫一個關(guān)于人類罪惡傾向以及上帝對此憤怒的故事，那場海嘯將是一個完美的例子。然后這個故事可以被任意扭曲：要么所有罪人死了，要么是信徒奇跡般地幸存下來。還要注意的是，圣經(jīng)中的事件跨越了幾個世紀，并不是說它把奇跡描繪成經(jīng)常發(fā)生的事情。
God still does those things we just have scientific explanations for most of it.
上帝仍然在做這些事情，我們只是對其中的大部分有科學(xué)的解釋。