QA：當(dāng)人們似乎對工廠工作不再感興趣時，為什么美國認(rèn)為自己可以成為世界工廠？
Why does the U.S. think it can become the world's factory when people don't seem interested in factory jobs anymore?
譯文簡介
網(wǎng)友：這里有一些很棒的數(shù)據(jù)。據(jù)我所見，80%的美國人希望制造業(yè)回流美國。但只有 20%的美國人實(shí)際上愿意在這些工廠工作。如果還沒看過的話，中國在一段視頻中巧妙地嘲諷了這一現(xiàn)象......
正文翻譯
Why does the U.S. think it can become the world's factory when people don't seem interested in factory jobs anymore?
當(dāng)人們似乎對工廠工作不再感興趣時，為什么美國認(rèn)為自己可以成為世界工廠？
當(dāng)人們似乎對工廠工作不再感興趣時，為什么美國認(rèn)為自己可以成為世界工廠？
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Some great statistics on this. According to what I saw, 80 percent of Americans want to see manufacturing come back to the US. But only 20 percent of Americans actually want to work in said factories.
If you haven’t seen them, China trolled this beautifully in a video that shows men with MAGA hats sewing bras, among other similar images.
But realistically, even if factories came back, it would take years to build them and then to get the raw materials flowing and the product out to market. Even then, it appears robots would be doing much of the actual work. Humans would be making sure the robots were working as designed.
Nostalgia is very dangerous. MAGA can mean…whatever you want it to mean, regardless of whether or not it is realistic or even possible to achieve.
這里有一些很棒的數(shù)據(jù)。據(jù)我所見，80%的美國人希望制造業(yè)回流美國。但只有 20%的美國人實(shí)際上愿意在這些工廠工作。如果還沒看過的話，中國在一段視頻中巧妙地嘲諷了這一現(xiàn)象，視頻中出現(xiàn)了戴著“讓美國再次偉大”帽子的人在縫制胸罩等類似場景。但現(xiàn)實(shí)情況是，即便工廠真的回流，也需要數(shù)年時間來建設(shè)，然后還要讓原材料供應(yīng)暢通，產(chǎn)品才能推向市場。即便如此，似乎大部分實(shí)際工作仍會由機(jī)器人完成，而人類則負(fù)責(zé)確保機(jī)器人按設(shè)計運(yùn)行。懷舊情緒非常危險?！白屆绹俅蝹ゴ蟆笨梢砸馕吨魏文阆胱屗馕吨臇|西，無論這是否現(xiàn)實(shí)，甚至是否有可能實(shí)現(xiàn)。
In other words …
換句話說………
New plant and equipment coming online in the US is highly automated. There will be opportunity but they will not be your parents’ factory job. That’s good. I grew up in a working class industrial neighborhood. To a man every father wished their child would not see the inside of their plant. These new jobs will pay well but will require the training and discipline that is lacking currently in that sector.
美國新投入使用的工廠和設(shè)備高度自動化。會有機(jī)會，但不會是您父母那一代的工廠工作。這很好，我成長在一個工人階級的工業(yè)區(qū)。每個父親都希望自己的孩子不要進(jìn)工廠工作。這些新工作薪酬不錯，但需要培訓(xùn)和紀(jì)律，而這正是目前該行業(yè)所缺乏的。
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China is automating their factories faster then the US.
中國工廠的自動化速度比美國快。
Funny how the com...sts embraced science fiction and made it fact, from flying cars to robot maids. If we weren’t so pig headed about them, we’d realize we’re just like them. They don’t want to work in dirty factories anymore than we do. It’s much better tending to a machine doing the real dirty work, than to do it by hand. That’s the progress we should be talking about, not going back to the turn of the century, and I mean from the 1800’s.
真有意思，GCZY者們擁抱科幻小說，并將其變?yōu)楝F(xiàn)實(shí)，從飛行汽車到機(jī)器人女仆。如果我們不那么頑固地反對他們，就會意識到我們其實(shí)和他們沒什么兩樣。他們不想再在骯臟的工廠里工作，我們也一樣。用一臺機(jī)器來干那些真正臟活累活，要比親自動手好得多。這才是我們應(yīng)該談?wù)摰倪M(jìn)步，而不是回到 19 世紀(jì)初，我說的是 1800 年代。
China is a capitalist society, not a com...st one. Calling China “com...st” is like saying that North Korea is a democratic republic because its name is the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea.
他們是一個資本主義社會，而非GCZY社會。稱中國為“GCZY”就好比說朝鮮是民主共和國，只因它的國名是朝鮮民主主義人民共和國。
It's all pure bullshit from a president that never worked a day in his life.
這全是胡說八道，說這話的總統(tǒng)一輩子都沒干過一天活。
Yes, but let's look back to the seventies, if we can.
24% of the country was in manufacturing and I'd guess 10% were in Vietnam.
But how was manufacturing when compared to today?
My mother would complain about how poorly seams were sewn so she would resew them.
A friend's father would buy a new car and take it apart to see how sloppy it was made.
Cars built in Japan were built better to tighter details.
I was told, perhaps as gallows humor, not to buy a car built on a Friday because of TGIF or on Monday due to hangovers. (How would a consumer know the day it was on the assembly line?)
Boeing made fantastic, safe airplanes. The doors didn't come off in-flight. The 747 was the state-of-the-art. The SST was fast. Boeing was an engineering company. (Today it's a financial institution.)
Why should we return to something we weren't good at doing?
好的，不過讓我們回顧一下 70 年代的情況，如果可以的話。當(dāng)時全國有 24%的人口從事制造業(yè)，我猜有 10%的人在越南。但當(dāng)時的制造業(yè)與現(xiàn)在相比如何呢？我母親會抱怨衣服的縫線縫得不好，所以她會重新縫一遍。一個朋友的父親會買一輛新車，然后把它拆開看看做工有多粗糙。日本制造的汽車做工更精細(xì)，細(xì)節(jié)更嚴(yán)謹(jǐn)。有人告訴我，也許這是黑色幽默，不要買周五生產(chǎn)的車，因?yàn)楣と讼胫案兄x上帝，周五到了”，也不要買周一生產(chǎn)的車，因?yàn)楣と诉€在宿醉中。（消費(fèi)者怎么知道車是在哪一天生產(chǎn)的呢？）波音制造的飛機(jī)很棒，很安全。飛行途中門不會掉下來。747 是最先進(jìn)的。超音速客機(jī)飛得很快。波音是一家工程公司（如今它卻成了金融機(jī)構(gòu)。）我們?yōu)槭裁匆氐竭^去那種不擅長的狀態(tài)呢？
1.35% of the 200 million population served in Vietnam and approximately 9.8 % was in the manufacturing sector. And if you look at the industrial base the low skill jobs were the first to be offshored. Toaster maker, ie Sunbeam, fled for low cost,while GE jet engine plant stayed in the states. Automation and a more educated workforce helped the US hang on to high value goods
越南 2 億人口中有 35% 從事服務(wù)業(yè)，約 9.8% 從事制造業(yè)。如果觀察其工業(yè)基礎(chǔ)，低技能工作率先被外包。比如烤面包機(jī)制造商 Sunbeam 為降低成本而撤離，而通用電氣的噴氣發(fā)動機(jī)工廠則留在了美國，自動化以及受教育程度更高的勞動力幫助美國保住了高附加值商品的生產(chǎn)。
Factories in the Midwest pay very poorly. About $12 hr. And they are always on a skeleton crew. And they demand mandatory OT often. And, they often short the paychecks. With no resolution from HR. This is a terrible environment for the workers. Nobody gains from this.
中西部的工廠工資極低，大約每小時 12 美元。而且他們總是只安排最少的員工。還經(jīng)常強(qiáng)制加班。而且，工資單經(jīng)常少發(fā)錢，人力資源部門也不解決。這對工人來說是個糟糕的工作環(huán)境。沒有人能從中獲益。
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Plus, the factory won’t be in your town, so the assembly line job will require you to relocate, move your kids to a new school, buy a new house, etc.
此外，工廠不會建在你們鎮(zhèn)上，所以裝配線的工作會讓你不得不搬家，把孩子轉(zhuǎn)到新學(xué)校，買新房子等等。
That is why you need a unx
這就是為什么你需要加入工會。
My grandfather told his sons whatever you do get a college degree so you don't ever have to work in steel mill like me. So my dad got an Electrical Engineering degree and I in Chemical Engineering never worked in a factory except to troubleshoot process engineering issues.
我祖父曾對他的兒子們說，無論做什么，都要拿到大學(xué)學(xué)位，這樣你們就永遠(yuǎn)不必像我一樣在鋼鐵廠工作。所以我的父親獲得了電氣工程學(xué)位，而我學(xué)的是化學(xué)工程，除了處理工藝工程方面的問題外，從未在工廠工作過。
Yes, MAGA those high Texas meat packing jobs are waiting for you with those Florida crop picking jobs,hurry up Tom and deport all of those workers
沒錯，讓美國再次偉大，那些高薪的得克薩斯州肉類加工工作正等著你，還有佛羅里達(dá)州的農(nóng)作物采摘工作，快點(diǎn)，湯姆，把那些工人都遣送走。
You need highly educated humans to build, program and manage those robots.
要制造、編程和管理那些機(jī)器人，就需要受過高等教育的人才。
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Once those robots are built and programmed most of those highly educated humans become expendable.
一旦那些機(jī)器人被制造出來并編程完畢，大多數(shù)那些受過高等教育的人就會變得可有可無。
I know this might sound flippant, but have you ever ordered a milk shake at McDonald’s? Yeah, those machines are infamous for breaking down. The more moving parts, the higher the wear and tear, and computer boards are notoriously fragile.
我知道這聽起來可能有點(diǎn)輕率，但你有沒有在麥當(dāng)勞點(diǎn)過奶昔？沒錯，那些機(jī)器出了名地容易出故障?；顒硬考蕉?，磨損就越厲害，而電腦板更是出了名的脆弱。
Surprisingly, it only seems to be McDonald's “shake” machines. All of the machines come from the same supplier and have a horrible reputation for failure. There is a photo on the web of a Dairy Queen opposite a McDonalds proudly advertising “OUR SOFT SERVE MACHINE IS WORKING” Ouch!
令人驚訝的是，似乎只有麥當(dāng)勞的“奶昔”機(jī)如此。所有這些機(jī)器都來自同一家供應(yīng)商，而且故障頻出，名聲極差。網(wǎng)上有一張照片，是一家奶品皇后店緊挨著一家麥當(dāng)勞，這家奶品皇后店還自豪地打出了“我們的軟冰淇淋機(jī)正常運(yùn)轉(zhuǎn)”的廣告。哎呀！
They are called engineers, and China can fill 3 football fields with theirs, while we fill a hotel ballroom. It used to be an engineer would be guaranteed 6 figures, no more.
他們被稱為工程師，中國能用他們的數(shù)量填滿 3 個足球場，而我們只能填滿一個酒店宴會廳。過去工程師的收入能保證六位數(shù)，現(xiàn)在不行了。
Does anyone remember when, if we were faced with some obstacle we would just roll up our sleeves and apply American ingenuity to solve the problem. Now, the moron in charge, backs away from any heavy listing. Instead of rolling up our sleeves, we back out of every obligation because it isn’t fair.
還有人記得嗎，過去要是遇到什么難題，我們就會挽起袖子，發(fā)揮美國人的聰明才智去解決?？扇缃?，那個蠢貨當(dāng)家，一碰到棘手的事就退縮。我們不再挽起袖子加油干，而是因?yàn)橛X得不公平就逃避一切責(zé)任。
Rich people like Trump don’t roll up their sleeves, they look for scapegoats and let the plebes fight over spilled milk. Cleaning up messes is beneath them. Once rich people took control of the electorate through Citizen’s United and gerrymandering, our leaders stopped being for the people, and just for themselves and people like them. F*ck the huddled masses, let them run for president!
像特朗普這樣的有錢人不會親力親為，他們只會找替罪羊，讓平民百姓為打翻的牛奶爭吵不休。收拾爛攤子是他們不屑于做的。自從有錢人通過“聯(lián)合公民”案和選區(qū)劃分操縱了選民，我們的領(lǐng)導(dǎo)人就不再為人民服務(wù)，只為他們自己和像他們那樣的人服務(wù)。去他的窮苦大眾，讓他們?nèi)ジ傔x總統(tǒng)吧！
Someone on quora wrote, and I'm sorry I don't remember who, previous Republican politicians have worked hard to distroy unx protections so these new manufacturing jobs that would actually be created would be moderately paid yet dangerous to both the worker and the local environment.
有人在 Quora 上寫道，很抱歉我不記得是誰了，之前的共和黨政客一直努力破壞工會保護(hù)，這樣新創(chuàng)造的制造業(yè)工作雖然薪酬還算不錯，但對工人和當(dāng)?shù)丨h(huán)境來說都很危險。
Maga means 1950’s great…or, is it 1850? White men ruling all—women, people of color, etc. Many southerners view Mayberry as something to strive for/return to which did not exist even then.
“讓美國再次偉大”意味著 1950 年代的美好……或者，是 1850 年？白人統(tǒng)治著所有女性、有色人種等等。許多南方人把梅伯里視為一種追求/回歸的目標(biāo)，可即便在當(dāng)時，那樣的景象也根本不存在。
Exactly. Well said.
確實(shí)如此。說得好。
There are currently almost 500,000 factory jobs going unfilled in the USA, most require the education and skills not offered by Americans looking for that kind of work. Menial labor is being done by robot automation, welcome to science fiction turned fact. A high school diploma will get you minimum wages, trade school will get you more. Or join the Army. If you are naturally clever, you might try a one man business. Uber, Lyfte, and every delivery service will do until robots take that over, too. China hires engineers to run their automated factories, America doesn’t produce enough to compete. I know, my buddy is an engineer for Amazon in Northern California, he is one of 50 American engineers, out of a department of 10,000 engineers, the other 9,950 are on H-1B visas. Mostly Chinese and Indian.
If you think only meat packing plants and farms depend on immigrant labor, you are woefully misinformed. Tim Cook is right, without Chinese engineers, America cannot compete in technology. Trump will chase them all out of the country. Are you paying attention, Bezos and Zuckerberg?
目前美國有將近 50 萬個工廠崗位空缺，大多數(shù)崗位需要的教育背景和技能是那些求職者所不具備的。體力勞動正被機(jī)器人自動化取代，歡迎來到科幻變現(xiàn)實(shí)的時代。高中文憑只能讓你拿到最低工資，上職業(yè)學(xué)校能掙多一些。或者參軍，如果你天生聰明，可以嘗試自己創(chuàng)業(yè)。優(yōu)步、來福車和各類送貨服務(wù)都能做，直到機(jī)器人也把它們搶走。中國雇傭工程師來管理他們的自動化工廠，而美國培養(yǎng)的工程師數(shù)量不夠，無法與之競爭。我知道，我的朋友是亞馬遜在北加州的一名工程師，在一個有 1 萬名工程師的部門里，他是 50 名美國工程師之一，其余 9950 名都是持 H-1B 簽證的，主要是中國人和印度人。 如果你認(rèn)為只有肉類加工廠和農(nóng)場依賴移民勞動力，那你就大錯特錯了。蒂姆·庫克說得對，沒有中國工程師，美國在科技領(lǐng)域就無法競爭。特朗普要把他們?nèi)稼s出美國。貝索斯和扎克伯格，你們注意到了嗎？
First of all- you are not American. You probably have zero friends or family that would be applying for those jobs.
I Do!
Next- nobody expects to go back to post WW2 assembly lines. Nobody.
The factory jobs will provide opportunities and training for people that otherwise would delivery drivers or service workers of some sorts. 20% of Americas population is about 70 million people.
首先，你不是美國人。你可能一個申請這些工作的朋友或親戚都沒有。 我有！其次，沒人指望能回到二戰(zhàn)后的那種裝配線工作。沒人，工廠的工作會為那些原本只能當(dāng)送貨司機(jī)或某種服務(wù)人員的人提供機(jī)會和培訓(xùn)，美國人口的 20% 大約是 7000 萬人。
I am American. I don’t argue that manufacturing would be a good thing. I just don’t think it will deliver what some people expect.
我是美國人，我并不否認(rèn)制造業(yè)會是一件好事。我只是覺得它不會達(dá)到一些人所期望的程度。
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We still need delivery drivers and the service sector plus most aren’t itching to take the pay cut.
我們?nèi)匀恍枰拓浰緳C(jī)和服務(wù)業(yè)人員，而且大多數(shù)人都不愿意接受降薪。
Seriously? Her credentials for this answer read “Former Foreign Service Officer at the U.S. Department of State”. You can’t be a FSO without being an American.
The training that will be needed to work in those highly automated factories will be way beyond what people with GEDs and high school dropouts or people with low quality education can aspire to. With the way things are at the Department of Education, future generations are in no danger of getting a great education.
真的嗎？她給出這個答案的資歷寫著“美國國務(wù)院前外交官”。沒有美國國籍不可能成為外交官。要在那些高度自動化的工廠工作所需的培訓(xùn)，遠(yuǎn)遠(yuǎn)超出了那些只有普通教育發(fā)展證、高中輟學(xué)者或受教育質(zhì)量低的人所能企及的水平。以教育部目前的狀況來看，未來幾代人接受優(yōu)質(zhì)教育的希望渺茫。
America was possibly a great place to be in the 50s and 60s , probably as the rest of the world on the whole was rebuilding after World War 2 . The problem is as it was great it stood still and the rest of the world rebuilt every thing from actual buildings and its way of life and improving the way of life they had then and before the war . Mean while America sat back thinking this is great and infrastructure . roads , buildings built well and modern at the time started to show there age due lack of maintenance as the rest of the world built new and repaired very well the old . BUT still Americans and particularly many governments since the world war have said America is the greatest country in the world and still do so . now Trump wants to MAGA ,,ermm which Americans were told it was any way , to make it great again it can not be that great !!
美國在 50 年代和 60 年代或許是個好地方，當(dāng)時整個世界可能都在二戰(zhàn)后重建。問題在于，美國在處于巔峰時停滯不前，而世界其他地區(qū)則重建了所有東西，包括實(shí)際的建筑和生活方式，并不斷改善戰(zhàn)時和戰(zhàn)前的生活水平。與此同時，美國卻坐享其成，認(rèn)為一切都很好，基礎(chǔ)設(shè)施、道路、建筑在當(dāng)時雖然建造得很好也很現(xiàn)代化，但由于缺乏維護(hù)，開始顯露出老舊的跡象，而世界其他地區(qū)則新建了許多設(shè)施，并很好地修復(fù)了舊的設(shè)施。但即便如此，美國人，尤其是二戰(zhàn)以來的許多政府，一直宣稱美國是世界上最偉大的國家，現(xiàn)在特朗普還想讓美國“再次偉大”，呃，美國人一直被告知美國本來就是最偉大的，那它怎么可能需要再次偉大呢？
America did not stand still. If you come here, you see infrastructure projects all around. I think this is a misconception. Yes, we built out our roads and airports before everyone and there was a time that there was no need to keep rebuilding, but there has always been maintenance. Of course, a newly industrialized country that is just building will have the latest, but the US doesn’t have to do that because things were already built, and the investment has to pay off. Should the US get rid of perfectly good infrastructure just to have the latest? If that is the case, it would be constant building. For what purpose?
It is the same in Europe. They started building after World War 2 and now that infrastructure is showing its age. Poorer members of the EU like Spain have better trains, for example, than other parts of the EU, and that is simply because Spain was poorer and are just starting to build its infrastructure in earnest. You will see newer highways in Eastern Europe than in say Germany. But that only shows that these places are new to the game.
China is building now and that is because they didn’t have much before. In time, that infrastructure will start to show its age and other countries will have newer stuff. It is just that countries are on different cycles.
But one thing to note: the US share of global GDP is still about the same as it was 30 years ago before the rise of China. It is really Europe and Japan that have seen their share contract. California’s economy alone is the 4th biggest in the world; it is almost as big as the biggest economy in Europe, Germany’s. California has half the people of Germany.
美國并非停滯不前。如果你來這里，會發(fā)現(xiàn)到處都是基礎(chǔ)設(shè)施建設(shè)項(xiàng)目。我認(rèn)為這是一種誤解。沒錯，我們在道路和機(jī)場建設(shè)方面領(lǐng)先于其他國家，曾經(jīng)有一段時間無需持續(xù)重建，但一直都有維護(hù)工作。當(dāng)然，一個剛剛開始工業(yè)化的國家在建設(shè)時會采用最新的技術(shù)，但美國不必這樣做，因?yàn)楹芏鄸|西已經(jīng)建好了，投資必須要有回報。難道美國要為了追求最新而廢棄完好的基礎(chǔ)設(shè)施嗎？如果真是那樣，那就會不停地建設(shè)，可這又有何意義呢？歐洲也是如此。他們在二戰(zhàn)后才開始建設(shè)，如今這些基礎(chǔ)設(shè)施也已顯露出老舊的跡象。比如，歐盟中較貧窮的成員國西班牙，其鐵路系統(tǒng)就比其他一些歐盟國家要好，這僅僅是因?yàn)槲靼嘌肋^去比較貧窮，現(xiàn)在才真正開始大力修建基礎(chǔ)設(shè)施。你會在東歐看到比德國更新的高速公路，但這只是因?yàn)檫@些地方參與建設(shè)的時間較晚。中國現(xiàn)在正在建設(shè)，是因?yàn)檫^去基礎(chǔ)薄弱。隨著時間的推移，那些基礎(chǔ)設(shè)施會逐漸顯現(xiàn)出老舊的跡象，其他國家則會有更新的東西。只是各國的發(fā)展周期不同而已。但有一點(diǎn)值得注意：美國在全球國內(nèi)生產(chǎn)總中的占比與 30 年前中國崛起之前大致相同。實(shí)際上，歐洲和日本的占比才有所縮減。單是加利福尼亞州的經(jīng)濟(jì)規(guī)模就位居全球第四，幾乎與歐洲最大的經(jīng)濟(jì)體德國相當(dāng)。而加利福尼亞州的人口只有德國的一半。
Is your solution simply to build more McDonalds or create more graduates with degrees in Urban Planning? I built a plant in China. From concept to site planning to first article was 24 mos. You don’t need to build a city to hire 200 man factory. And many states, like Georgia, are extremely well organized to do it quickly.
您的解決辦法僅僅是多建幾家麥當(dāng)勞或者培養(yǎng)更多城市規(guī)劃專業(yè)的畢業(yè)生嗎？我在中國建了一家工廠。從概念到選址規(guī)劃再到首件產(chǎn)品完成，總共花了 24 個月。您不需要建一座城市來雇傭 200 人的工廠。而且像佐治亞州這樣的許多州，組織得非常好，能夠迅速完成這些工作。
Where are these numbers coming from? Every factory I have ever seen open has had people line up looking for work. The ones with skeleton crews either chose the sweat shop mentality or treat their people so poorly there is high turnover. And yes many factories pay low wages when you start, but so do warehouses, banks, insurance companies, retail etc. most jobs in America are low paying today while corporations profits have skyrocketed. No, this is not how capitalism should work, this is just mindless greed. A well run capitalist society should be paying their workers well so they can easily buy more. A well run economy should be able to feed, cloth and house the people without going to outside sources constantly. If companies stopped wasting money on stock buy backs, lobbyists, political candidates plus paid the executives a more realistic pay, they would be able to afford to pay workers more. How do I know, well that is how we did it from 1945 to around 1970. We had cheap well made items made here, affordable healthcare, good paying jobs, and better schools. So capitalism can work and be more fair. Greed is a human issue, not a capitalist one.
這些數(shù)字從何而來？我所見過的每一家開業(yè)的工廠，都有人排隊(duì)等著找工作。那些人員配備不足的工廠要么秉持血汗工廠的經(jīng)營理念，要么就是對待員工太差，導(dǎo)致員工流動率很高。沒錯，很多工廠剛?cè)肼殨r工資都很低，但倉庫、銀行、保險公司、零售業(yè)等也一樣。如今美國大多數(shù)工作都工資很低，而企業(yè)利潤卻大幅飆升。不，這不是資本主義應(yīng)有的運(yùn)作方式，這只是盲目貪婪的表現(xiàn)。一個運(yùn)轉(zhuǎn)良好的資本主義社會應(yīng)當(dāng)給工人支付高薪，這樣他們就能輕松購買更多商品。一個運(yùn)轉(zhuǎn)良好的經(jīng)濟(jì)體應(yīng)當(dāng)能夠自給自足，無需頻繁從外部獲取資源。如果企業(yè)不再把錢浪費(fèi)在股票回購、游說、政治候選人身上，同時給高管支付更合理的薪酬，他們就能支付給工人更高的工資。我怎么知道？因?yàn)閺?1945 年到大約 1970 年，我們就是這樣做的。我們有物美價廉的商品，負(fù)擔(dān)得起的醫(yī)療保健，高薪工作和更好的學(xué)校。所以資本主義是可以行得通且更公平的。貪婪是人的本性問題，而非資本主義的問題。
Upvoted. To add to you point, nobody wants a regular inner that costs $70, it just doesn’t work that way, the math doesn’t add up, since the minimum wage in the US is $15 in many areas, and the minimum wage in Chinese factories is like $1.5. And clothing costs five times as much in the US that it costs outside the US. All this will do is shift manufacturing away from China to India/Bangladesh/Nepal/Sri Lanka. Aka, manufacturing jobs won’t return to the US in any meaningful way.
贊同。補(bǔ)充一點(diǎn)，沒人愿意花 70 美元買一件普通的內(nèi)衣，這根本行不通，算不過賬，因?yàn)槊绹芏嗟貐^(qū)的最低工資是 15 美元，而中國工廠的最低工資大概是 1.5 美元。而且美國的服裝價格是國外的五倍。這樣做只會把制造業(yè)從中國轉(zhuǎn)移到印度/孟加拉國/尼泊爾/斯里蘭卡。也就是說，制造業(yè)崗位不會以任何有意義的方式回流美國。
First, we’re delusional.
Those who push for a return need to ask anyone they can find how wonderful factory work was? How well they were paid., what happened that caused unxs to form.
Because most of those modern factory proponents have never done any work like this. And certainly don’t want to. It’s not cool. There’s lots of trades jobs open right now they won’t even apply for. And the money would likely be better in those.
In our industrial hay day we were depending on the steady stream of immigrants flooding into the country. They were the ones doing that hot hard, dangerous work , under awful conditions . Under paid, to say the least.
I’m in my seventies. I lived all the way through the fifties. But I was only 12 in 1960. My memories are child memories. Not an adults perspective. We made it through on only my dad’s salary , 5 of us, but it wasn’t because he was paid real well. It was because we didn’t have much and often went without. It wasn’t easy for him. And he worked an office job for an oil company, with a business degree.
We aren’t going to find that many modern Americans willing to do factory work today. And we have to pay them so much they couldn’t possibly compete with foreign manufacturing.
How do you think this works? Factory work isn’t going to increase here. Get over it. Move on. Stop believing lies.
I’d like to see an analysis of auto factories to understand how they are making it work today.
首先，我們是自欺欺人。那些主張回歸制造業(yè)的人應(yīng)該問問身邊的人，工廠工作到底有多好？工資有多高？是什么導(dǎo)致了工會的形成？因?yàn)榇蠖鄶?shù)現(xiàn)代制造業(yè)的支持者從未從事過這類工作，而且肯定也不想從事，這并不酷?，F(xiàn)在有很多技術(shù)工種的職位空缺，他們甚至都不愿意申請，而且那些工作的收入可能更高。在我們的工業(yè)鼎盛時期，我們依賴源源不斷涌入這個國家的移民。正是他們從事著那些高溫、繁重、危險的工作，在惡劣的條件下工作，工資微薄，這是毫無疑問的。我七十多歲了，整個五十年代我都經(jīng)歷過，但 1960 年我只有 12 歲，我的記憶只是孩子的記憶，并非成年人的視角。我們一家五口僅靠我父親的工資勉強(qiáng)度日，但那并不是因?yàn)樗べY高，而是因?yàn)槲覀儧]什么錢，經(jīng)常缺衣少食。對他來說并不容易，而且他是在一家石油公司做辦公室工作，還擁有商學(xué)學(xué)位。如今，我們不可能找到那么多愿意從事工廠工作的現(xiàn)代美國人。而且我們付給他們的工資高得離譜，他們根本無法與外國制造業(yè)競爭。你覺得這行得通嗎？這里的工廠工作不會增加，接受現(xiàn)實(shí)吧。向前看，別再相信謊言了。我希望能對汽車工廠進(jìn)行一番分析，以了解他們?nèi)缃袷侨绾芜\(yùn)作的。
It’s true that modern manufacturing facilities in the US bear slight resemblance to the factories of my youth. I never met a factory worker when I was young who wished their child would follow in their footsteps—not one. Now automation has greatly reduced the number of mind-numbing tasks that drove that older generation crazy. Here’s the thing though, production employees now need a far higher set of skills to manage sophisticated factory floors. That skill set simply does not exist in the numbers needed to support such endeavors. Managers struggle to find workers who will show up on time sober and whose basic skills barely meet a GED.
的確，如今美國的現(xiàn)代化工廠與我年輕時見到的工廠已大不相同。我年輕時從未遇到過哪個工人希望自己的孩子也從事這一行——一個都沒有。如今自動化大大減少了那些曾讓上一代人抓狂的單調(diào)乏味的工作。但問題是，如今的生產(chǎn)工人需要具備更高水平的技能才能管理復(fù)雜的工廠車間。而具備這種技能的人才數(shù)量遠(yuǎn)遠(yuǎn)無法滿足這種需求。管理人員很難找到那些能按時上班、頭腦清醒且基本技能僅勉強(qiáng)達(dá)到高中畢業(yè)水平的工人。
Exactly try right. Their is currently no or little manufacturing labour pool. That as the same in mist western countries
確實(shí)如此，目前幾乎沒有制造業(yè)勞動力儲備，這在大多數(shù)西方國家也是如此。
Also there are lots of factory jobs that are going begging like robotic techs. These jobs pay very well and are not repetitive. But they require 2 years of community college and people aren't getting those certificates.
此外，還有許多工廠的工作崗位無人問津，比如機(jī)器人技術(shù)員。這些工作報酬豐厚，而且并非重復(fù)性勞動。但它們需要兩年的社區(qū)大學(xué)學(xué)歷，而人們卻沒有拿到這些證書。
Trump told everyone they didn't need college. My state is lucky. Starting with this years high school graduate all get two years in community college free. That is how you grow a nation.
特朗普告訴所有人他們不需要上大學(xué)。我們州很幸運(yùn)，從今年的高中畢業(yè)生開始，所有人都能免費(fèi)上兩年社區(qū)大學(xué)。這才是國家發(fā)展的正確之道。
The two years in a community college will be largely vocational — something that used to be done at the HS level — and not a pathway into a useless BA in art history, pol-sci, sociology, or communications at a four year institution.
Most of these kids will come out with employable skills instead of $100k+ in debt only to be qualified as a barista.
That’s how you grow a nation.
在社區(qū)大學(xué)的兩年學(xué)習(xí)將主要以職業(yè)培訓(xùn)為主——這在過去是高中階段就該完成的任務(wù)——而不是成為通往四年制大學(xué)那些毫無用處的藝術(shù)史、政治學(xué)、社會學(xué)或傳播學(xué)學(xué)士學(xué)位的途徑。大多數(shù)這些孩子畢業(yè)時將掌握就業(yè)技能，而不是背負(fù) 10 萬美元以上的債務(wù)，最終只能勝任咖啡師的工作。這才是國家發(fā)展的正確之道。
You are probably correct in your assumption due to our current welfare system making it financially better not to work.
I have had a number of my employees that I wanted to promote to supervisory or management positions tell me that they could not afford to have their welfare payments and free benefits reduced due to their higher wage.
They did not take the promotions.
Our school systems have also indoctrinated student into believing manual labor is a throwback to a slave mentality, in which the rich get richer and the poor get poorer while working at menial jobs for low wages.
This is the greatest fallacy ever perpetration on the American public and a throwback to the 1800s “sweat shops”.
Yes, the richer get richer, but at the same time the standard of living for workers increase as well as many becoming part of the wealthier segments of our society.
This is a positive example of one hand washing the other.
Our inadequate educational system wants everyone to believe the schools and their teachers will educate them sufficiently to obtain “clean jobs” for which they are not prepared due to the failure of our public school systems to educate them.
To end my response, pulling oneself up by ones bootstraps, as well earning a living from the sweat of your brow have been long forgotten
鑒于我們現(xiàn)行的福利制度，你這種想法可能是對的，因?yàn)閺慕?jīng)濟(jì)角度來看，不工作反而更劃算。我有不少員工，他們本有機(jī)會晉升到主管或管理崗位，卻跟我說，由于工資提高會導(dǎo)致福利金和免費(fèi)福利減少，他們負(fù)擔(dān)不起。所以他們沒有接受晉升。我們的學(xué)校還灌輸給學(xué)生這樣的觀念：體力勞動是奴隸心態(tài)的遺留，富人越來越富，窮人越來越窮，只能做些低薪的苦工。這是對美國公眾最大的誤導(dǎo)，也是對 19 世紀(jì)“血汗工廠”的一種倒退。沒錯，富人的確越來越富，但與此同時，工人的生活水平也在提高，很多人也成為了社會中較富裕的階層。這是互利共贏的一個積極例子。我們不完善的教育體系卻想讓每個人都相信，學(xué)校和老師能充分教育他們，讓他們獲得“干凈的工作”，但實(shí)際上由于公立學(xué)校教育的失敗，他們根本無法勝任這些工作。要結(jié)束我的回答，自力更生、靠辛勤勞動養(yǎng)家糊口這些觀念早已被遺忘。