外網(wǎng)熱議：為什么F-35被認(rèn)為是失敗的，盡管它是世界上唯一一架具有隱身性、敏捷性、海軍兼容性和超音速的飛機(jī)？

Why is the F-35 considered a failure despite being the only plane in the world that is stealth, agile, naval compatible, and supersonic?

2025-05-19 驛路遛馬 9135 46 13 收藏糾錯(cuò)&舉報(bào)

譯文簡(jiǎn)介

網(wǎng)友：F-35存在明顯的作戰(zhàn)半徑局限，且高度依賴非隱身作戰(zhàn)體系的支援（包括航母、補(bǔ)給艦、加油機(jī)等）。這意味著敵方無(wú)需直接追蹤F-35本身，只需鎖定其支援體系即可有效壓制該戰(zhàn)機(jī)。顯然，F(xiàn)-35的設(shè)計(jì)初衷是針對(duì)塔利班等非正規(guī)武裝——盡管塔利班連最基本的防空系統(tǒng)都不具備。

正文翻譯

F-35存在明顯的作戰(zhàn)半徑局限，且高度依賴非隱身作戰(zhàn)體系的支援（包括航母、補(bǔ)給艦、加油機(jī)等）。這意味著敵方無(wú)需直接追蹤F-35本身，只需鎖定其支援體系即可有效壓制該戰(zhàn)機(jī)。顯然，F(xiàn)-35的設(shè)計(jì)初衷是針對(duì)塔利班等非正規(guī)武裝——盡管塔利班連最基本的防空系統(tǒng)都不具備。

評(píng)論翻譯

Ati Cheema
There is no need to like the F-35. Perhaps you believe that it was too expensive or took too long to fix. Fair enough. But here’s the truth: the world becomes more dangerous, not less. Missiles are everywhere in Ukraine. It is the season of drones in the Middle East. Tensions are rising in Asia. If a jet is non-stealthy it is easy to hit. We are not theorising here – that is what is going on.

沒(méi)必要喜歡F-35。也許你認(rèn)為它太貴了，或者花了太長(zhǎng)時(shí)間才修好。這都很合理。但事實(shí)是：世界變得更危險(xiǎn)了，而不是更安全。導(dǎo)彈遍布烏克蘭。中東地區(qū)正值無(wú)人機(jī)盛行。亞洲緊張局勢(shì)正在加劇。如果一架?chē)姎馐斤w機(jī)沒(méi)有隱身能力，它就很容易被擊中。我們?cè)谶@里不是在理論探討——這就是正在發(fā)生的事情。

Old jets are not able to operate in such battles. Stealth is no longer a fancy supplementary thing. It is the difference between being alive and being shot down. The F-35 had its problems, sure. But it’s flying now. It works. Israel’s using it in combat. It is coming from the ships in the U.S. It can avoid radar, share info and strike before it is seen.

老舊戰(zhàn)機(jī)已無(wú)法適應(yīng)此類(lèi)戰(zhàn)場(chǎng)環(huán)境。隱身技術(shù)不再是什么錦上添花的附加功能，而是關(guān)乎生死存亡的關(guān)鍵差異——能存活還是被擊落，全系于此。
F-35確實(shí)曾有問(wèn)題，但如今已投入實(shí)戰(zhàn)：
· 以色列正將其運(yùn)用于作戰(zhàn)行動(dòng)
· 美軍艦載機(jī)型已形成戰(zhàn)斗力
其核心優(yōu)勢(shì)體現(xiàn)在：
? 雷達(dá)規(guī)避能力
? 戰(zhàn)場(chǎng)信息共享系統(tǒng)
? 先敵發(fā)現(xiàn)的打擊能力

Could we build something better? Possibly, but this will take 10–15 years. We do not have that sort of time. The F-35 is not perfect but it is ready now. And that matters.

我們能造出更好的東西嗎？可能可以，但這需要10-15年。我們沒(méi)有那么多時(shí)間。F-35并不完美，但它現(xiàn)在已經(jīng)準(zhǔn)備好了。這很重要。

This is not a showboat jet. It is about being prepared for things to go bad. And in case of a major war – and let’s face it, maybe it will happen – the weaker side with old planes is going to have serious troubles.

這架飛機(jī)不是用來(lái)炫耀的。它是為了應(yīng)對(duì)可能發(fā)生的糟糕情況而準(zhǔn)備的。如果發(fā)生重大戰(zhàn)爭(zhēng)——讓我們面對(duì)現(xiàn)實(shí)，也許真的會(huì)發(fā)生——使用老舊飛機(jī)的弱勢(shì)一方將會(huì)面臨嚴(yán)重麻煩。

The F-35 is about staying alive.

F-35關(guān)系到能否活下來(lái)。

Rodra Hascaryo
Ukraine, Israel, and now Pakistan-India proved beyond reasonable doubt why old non-stealthy airplanes are on their way out and why the expensive investment in the F-35 was not only warranted but also timely.

烏克蘭、以色列，以及現(xiàn)在的巴基斯坦和印度，都無(wú)可辯駁地證明了為什么老舊的非隱身飛機(jī)正在被淘汰，以及為什么對(duì)F-35進(jìn)行昂貴投資不僅是合理的，而且是急需的。

They have very limited survivability vs modern missiles.

它們?cè)诿鎸?duì)現(xiàn)代導(dǎo)彈時(shí)生存能力非常有限。

The problem with the F-35 was it was expensive and people didn’t think that was necessary. “We won’t have any more wars where we need expensive stealth fighters!” Turns out, they’re wrong.

F-35的問(wèn)題在于它很貴，而且人們認(rèn)為沒(méi)必要。“我們不會(huì)再有需要昂貴隱形戰(zhàn)斗機(jī)的戰(zhàn)爭(zhēng)了！”事實(shí)證明，他們錯(cuò)了。

Yes, rationally nobody would fight that kind of war anymore because it’s so horrendously expensive that you can’t possibly gain anything to offset the cost. But why don’t you tell that to Putin before Feb 2022? You think he’d change his mind? And despite all the losses over the past few years, Russia is still intent on fighting in Ukraine. Point being, assuming that everyone will act rationally is silly and you got to be prepared for nonsense.

確實(shí)，從理性角度而言，如今已無(wú)人愿打這種戰(zhàn)爭(zhēng)——代價(jià)高昂到根本不可能通過(guò)收益彌補(bǔ)。但這話你在2022年2月前對(duì)普京說(shuō)試試？你覺(jué)得他會(huì)改變主意嗎？盡管過(guò)去幾年損失慘重，俄羅斯至今仍在烏克蘭鏖戰(zhàn)。這恰恰說(shuō)明：假定所有人都會(huì)理性行事是愚蠢的，必須為各種荒唐情況做好準(zhǔn)備。

The F-35 is simply a part of that preparation.

F-35只是這種準(zhǔn)備工作的一部分。

True, the F-35 is still having a few problems, but its critics ignored how successful Israeli F-35 had been in the past few years and focused on its issues.

誠(chéng)然，F(xiàn)-35仍然有一些問(wèn)題，但批評(píng)者們忽略了以色列F-35在過(guò)去幾年中取得的成功，而僅僅關(guān)注它的問(wèn)題。

Imagine if the F-35 was cancelled and now the US Air Force is scrambling to make a new stealth strike jet. Even assuming the absolute best scenario where literally nothing went wrong down to the smallest nuts and bolts, it would take 10 years or something that from concept to prototype and then to production because of how much of a leap it was.

想象一下，如果F-35被取消了，現(xiàn)在美國(guó)空軍正在爭(zhēng)分奪秒地制造一種新的隱形攻擊機(jī)。即使假設(shè)在一切順利、甚至連最小的螺母螺栓都沒(méi)出問(wèn)題的最佳情況下，從概念到原型機(jī)再到生產(chǎn)，也需要10年左右的時(shí)間，因?yàn)樗且粋€(gè)巨大的飛躍。

Thierry Etienne Joseph Rotty
It is about cost and maintenance.

這關(guān)乎成本和維護(hù)。

An F-35 and its spare parts are far more expensive than, for example, an F-16.

一架F-35及其備件比一架F-16要貴得多。

While their combat load is roughly the same, your spare parts will cost you three times as much and your maintenance four times as much.

雖然它們的作戰(zhàn)載荷大致相同，但你的備件成本會(huì)是它的三倍，維護(hù)成本會(huì)是它的四倍。

Simple example.

一個(gè)簡(jiǎn)單的例子。

I have an F-16 that flies a deep strike mission once a day. OK, the risk of being shot down in an intensive air defence environment is higher, but I have an aircraft with cheap maintenance and cheap spare parts.

我有一架F-16，每天執(zhí)行一次深度打擊任務(wù)。好的，在密集防空環(huán)境下的被擊落風(fēng)險(xiǎn)更高，但我擁有一架維護(hù)成本低廉、備件便宜的飛機(jī)。

Now, if I want to fly the same deep strike mission once every day, I will need four F-35s as they will require a lot more maintenance and the spare parts cost me three times as much.

現(xiàn)在，如果我想每天執(zhí)行一次相同的深度打擊任務(wù)，我將需要四架F-35，因?yàn)樗鼈冃枰嗟木S護(hù)，而且備件成本是我的三倍。

The overall cost of deploying a single F-16 is considerably less than deploying four F-35s.

部署一架F-16的總成本遠(yuǎn)低于部署四架F-35。
原創(chuàng)翻譯：龍騰網(wǎng) http://m.top-shui.cn 轉(zhuǎn)載請(qǐng)注明出處

Now calculate the cost of an F-35 compared to an F-16 over a 40 year lifespan.

現(xiàn)在計(jì)算一下F-35與F-16在40年壽命周期內(nèi)的成本。

From the point of view of the accountant, the F-35 is crap. You need a large budget before you can deploy the F-35 compared to the F-16. In practice this means politicians will think twice about deploying the F-35 … meaning that for a lot in the military, the F-35 is crap as well as it is an aircraft that is usually tucked away in an hangar and not deployed.

從會(huì)計(jì)師的角度來(lái)看，F(xiàn)-35就是垃圾。與F-16相比，你需要一個(gè)龐大的預(yù)算才能部署F-35。實(shí)際上，這意味著政客們?cè)诓渴餏-35時(shí)會(huì)三思而行……也就是說(shuō)，對(duì)于軍隊(duì)中的許多人來(lái)說(shuō)，F(xiàn)-35也是垃圾，因?yàn)樗ǔ１徊卦跈C(jī)庫(kù)里，而不是被部署出去。

History teaches us that expensive weapon systems, no matter how good their performance, are crap when it comes to practical purposes because of the costs.

歷史告訴我們，昂貴的武器系統(tǒng)，無(wú)論其性能多好，在實(shí)際使用中都是垃圾，因?yàn)槌杀咎摺?br /> The most important aspect in government is the budget, nothing ever happens without an approved budget. The more expensive a weapon system is, the less likely it會(huì)被部署。
政府中最重要的一環(huán)是預(yù)算，沒(méi)有批準(zhǔn)的預(yù)算就什么也不會(huì)發(fā)生。武器系統(tǒng)越貴，被部署的可能性就越小。

Jack Menendez
The F-35 was sold to Congress on the notion that it would replace all of the existing F-15-EX, F-16, FA-18, and A-10. Even F-22 production was cut short partly because the F-35 would be able to carry out some of its missions and all of this would happen by 2013, but none of those things happened and still hasn't happened and the whole program it is an epic disastor. It will be another ten years before the F-35 has the computational resource and software to do what it was supposed to do back in 2013.

F-35項(xiàng)目當(dāng)初是以這樣一個(gè)設(shè)想向國(guó)會(huì)推銷(xiāo)的：它將取代所有現(xiàn)有的 F-15EX、F-16、FA-18 和 A-10，甚至 F-22 的生產(chǎn)也被提前終止，部分原因是認(rèn)為 F-35 能夠執(zhí)行其中一些任務(wù)。所有這些原本都應(yīng)在 2013 年之前實(shí)現(xiàn)，但實(shí)際上沒(méi)有一項(xiàng)真正實(shí)現(xiàn)，直到現(xiàn)在也沒(méi)有發(fā)生。整個(gè)項(xiàng)目可以說(shuō)是一次史詩(shī)級(jí)的災(zāi)難。F-35 至少還需要十年時(shí)間，才有可能具備其在 2013 年就應(yīng)該具備的計(jì)算能力和軟件功能。

Let's be frank about this, the entire $2.1 trillion dollars F-35 program is really nothing more than a jobs program and so is NGAD.

坦率地說(shuō)，整個(gè)價(jià)值2.1萬(wàn)億美元的F-35項(xiàng)目實(shí)際上只不過(guò)是一個(gè)增加就業(yè)項(xiàng)目，NGAD（下一代空中優(yōu)勢(shì)）也是如此。

Marcello Gusberti
Only right one is (for now) naval compatible, the rest is absolutely not true.

目前唯一正確的一點(diǎn)是它（目前）具備海軍兼容性，其余的說(shuō)法絕對(duì)不是真的。
原創(chuàng)翻譯：龍騰網(wǎng) http://m.top-shui.cn 轉(zhuǎn)載請(qǐng)注明出處

First one : actually every plane in service in a functional Air force has , by a considerable degree, a great deal of RCS signature reduction applied. Stealth take it just a degree further but at a considerable cost and ABOVE all maintenance requirements that allow just for a dramatically low operational readiness.

第一點(diǎn)：實(shí)際上，一個(gè)正常運(yùn)作的空軍現(xiàn)役的每一架飛機(jī)，在很大程度上都進(jìn)行了大量的雷達(dá)反射截面積（RCS）信號(hào)縮減。隱身只是在此基礎(chǔ)上更進(jìn)一步，但付出了相當(dāng)大的成本，最重要的是維護(hù)要求極高，導(dǎo)致作戰(zhàn)準(zhǔn)備度極低。

In any case there are also the F-2A, the Su-57 and above all the J-20. Other are incoming : J-35, and Boramae are already in serial production.

無(wú)論如何，還有F-2A、蘇-57，最重要的是殲-20。其他正在到來(lái)：殲-35和KF-21“獵鷹”（Boramae）已經(jīng)開(kāi)始批量生產(chǎn)。

Agile, who? Fat Amy? No TVC, no Canards, no Lerx nothing that suggest it could be better than a legacy teen fighter.

敏捷？誰(shuí)？胖艾米？沒(méi)有推力矢量控制（TVC），沒(méi)有鴨翼，沒(méi)有邊條翼，沒(méi)有任何跡象表明它會(huì)比老式的“青少年”戰(zhàn)斗機(jī)更好。

Supersonic? Just barely. Not even close to an absolutely normal 2 mach.

超音速？勉強(qiáng)。甚至連正常的2馬赫都差得遠(yuǎn)。

And in any case no, the F-35 is not considered a failure only a disappointment and an under performer.

無(wú)論如何，不，F(xiàn)-35不是一個(gè)失敗的產(chǎn)品，只是一個(gè)令人失望和性能不足的產(chǎn)品。

But this could be said of ALL the other 5° generation planes actually in service (except the J-20).

但這可以適用于所有其他正在服役的第五代飛機(jī)（殲-20除外）。

To put it in short , it seems that is almost impossible to attain a stable configuration for a 5° generation plane and then “freeze” the development and begin to produce them en masse.

簡(jiǎn)而言之，似乎幾乎不可能為第五代飛機(jī)獲得穩(wěn)定的配置，然后“凍結(jié)”開(kāi)發(fā)并開(kāi)始大規(guī)模生產(chǎn)它們。

With F-117A, B-2A and F-22A they have already thrown the blanket, F-35 and Su-57 are still struggling to get there.

對(duì)于F-117A、B-2A和F-22A，他們已經(jīng)蓋棺定論了，F(xiàn)-35和蘇-57仍在努力達(dá)到那個(gè)階段。

So, it could also be that when (and IF) they would have solved all their own issues a viable 6° gen plane would be ready for serial production instead.

因此，也可能當(dāng)他們（如果）解決了所有自身問(wèn)題時(shí)，一款可行的第六代飛機(jī)反而已經(jīng)準(zhǔn)備好批量生產(chǎn)了。
原創(chuàng)翻譯：龍騰網(wǎng) http://m.top-shui.cn 轉(zhuǎn)載請(qǐng)注明出處

Dominik Schachtsiek
The premise of the question is wrong.

這個(gè)問(wèn)題的前提是錯(cuò)誤的。

If you are looking at the long list of countries which are waiting for their very own F-35’s, you really cannot consider it a failure.

如果你看看那些正在等待自己F-35的國(guó)家的長(zhǎng)串名單，你真的不能認(rèn)為它是一個(gè)失敗產(chǎn)品。

Nearly a thousand airfrxs have been built (until 2023).

（截至2023年）已經(jīng)建造了近千架機(jī)身。

Not one country, which has been in the market for a next generation fighter jet and which are eligible for a F-35 has been sexting against the F-35! Despite the fact, that the countries might need to wait for several years in line - and despite the fact, that the F-35 is a reasonable expensive (and expensive to maintain) airfrx.

沒(méi)有一個(gè)正在尋求下一代戰(zhàn)斗機(jī)且符合購(gòu)買(mǎi)F-35條件的國(guó)家，選擇不購(gòu)買(mǎi)F-35！盡管事實(shí)是這些國(guó)家可能需要排隊(duì)等待幾年——盡管事實(shí)是F-35是一種相當(dāng)昂貴（且維護(hù)費(fèi)用高昂）的戰(zhàn)斗機(jī)。

So no - the F-35 is by experts not considered a failure. Rather the opposite!

所以，不——F-35并未被專家們視為失敗。事實(shí)恰恰相反！

Somnath Ghosh
Who needs it and why?

誰(shuí)需要它，為什么？

It may be the best in its category and possibly true, but why does any country need it as a self preserver, except America herself?

它可能是同類(lèi)中最好的，這或許是真的，但除了美國(guó)自己，為什么任何國(guó)家需要它來(lái)自我保護(hù)呢？

Other non US aircraft are good enough for limited purposes . Nobody is planning for a semi apocalypse, even if a deflated US is trying to project it

其他非美國(guó)制造的飛機(jī)對(duì)于有限用途而言已經(jīng)足夠優(yōu)秀。即便是一個(gè)實(shí)力衰退的美國(guó)正試圖渲染半末日?qǐng)鼍埃矝](méi)人真正在為這種災(zāi)難性局面做打算。

All countries have seen through US outdated political chicanery. Trump has more than helped them in their conviction

所有國(guó)家都已經(jīng)看穿了美國(guó)過(guò)時(shí)的政治伎倆。特朗普更是堅(jiān)定了他們的這一信念。

Let the US fight its own battles or prostrate to Osama Land

讓美國(guó)自己去打仗，或者向“本·拉登之地”屈膝投降吧。

Painkuid
f35 does not have long combat range and relies heavily on the support of non-stealth assets (carriers, support ships, tanker aircraft, etc.) which means the enemy does not need to track the f35 but only needs to track the supporting assets to kill the f35. obviusly, the f35 was designed to fight the taliban/similar even though the Taliban themselves do not have an anti-aircraft system.

F-35存在明顯的作戰(zhàn)半徑局限，且高度依賴非隱身作戰(zhàn)體系的支援（包括航母、補(bǔ)給艦、加油機(jī)等）。這意味著敵方無(wú)需直接追蹤F-35本身，只需鎖定其支援體系即可有效壓制該戰(zhàn)機(jī)。顯然，F(xiàn)-35的設(shè)計(jì)初衷是針對(duì)塔利班等非正規(guī)武裝——盡管塔利班連最基本的防空系統(tǒng)都不具備。

in conventional warfare, the party that has a fighter/bomber with a long range is usually the winner. for example: in the Pacific war, the United States can bomb the industrial center of Tokyo while Japan itself cannot bomb the industrial center on the west/east coast of the USA.

在常規(guī)戰(zhàn)爭(zhēng)中，擁有遠(yuǎn)程戰(zhàn)斗機(jī)/轟炸機(jī)的一方通常是贏家。例如：在太平洋戰(zhàn)爭(zhēng)中，美國(guó)可以轟炸東京的工業(yè)中心，而日本自己卻無(wú)法轟炸美國(guó)西海岸/東海岸的工業(yè)中心。

to be honest, the prospects for American fighter aircraft are starting to get a bit bleak, the United States continues to produce the f35 even though they know that aircraft cannot survive a real conventional war

老實(shí)說(shuō)，美國(guó)戰(zhàn)斗機(jī)的前景開(kāi)始變得有點(diǎn)黯淡，美國(guó)持續(xù)生產(chǎn)F-35，盡管他們知道這種飛機(jī)無(wú)法在真正的常規(guī)戰(zhàn)爭(zhēng)中生存。

Julian Pereira
Well there are a few reasons

嗯，有幾個(gè)原因。

1 No adversary of the US has yet made a weapon even close to the F35.

1 美國(guó)沒(méi)有任何對(duì)手制造出接近F-35的武器。

2 No ally of the US has yet made a weapon even close to the F35.

2 美國(guó)沒(méi)有任何盟友制造出接近F-35的武器。

3 No adversary has made a weapon close to the F15. The Su27 family is proven to be useless against it.

3 沒(méi)有對(duì)手制造出接近F-15的武器。蘇-27家族已被證明對(duì)它毫無(wú)用處。

4 No adversary has made a weapon even close to the F16. The Su27 has proven to be useless against it.

4 沒(méi)有對(duì)手制造出接近F-16的武器。蘇-27已被證明對(duì)它毫無(wú)用處。

5 No adversary has made a weapon even close to the F18. The Su27 family is likely useless against this as well.

5 沒(méi)有對(duì)手制造出接近F-18的武器。蘇-27家族也可能對(duì)它毫無(wú)用處。

6 No adversary has made a weapon close to the defunct F14.

6 沒(méi)有對(duì)手制造出接近已退役的F-14的武器。

7 It is an expensive aircraft to maintain and deploy.

7 它是一種維護(hù)和部署費(fèi)用高昂的飛機(jī)。

That's about it. The US allies have aircraft in the range of capability of the F14 to F18. No US enemy does.

差不多就是這些了。美國(guó)的盟友擁有能力介于F-14到F-18之間的飛機(jī)。美國(guó)的敵人沒(méi)有。

The US has gone from being some 10 to 15 years ahead of China and Russia to something like 25 to 40

美國(guó)已經(jīng)從領(lǐng)先中國(guó)和俄羅斯大約10到15年，變?yōu)轭I(lǐng)先大約25到40年。

Essentially it is too good an aircraft.

本質(zhì)上，它是一架太好的飛機(jī)了。

F-35 海軍 超音速 飛機(jī)

很贊 ( 13 )

外網(wǎng)熱議：為什么F-35被認(rèn)為是失敗的，盡管它是世界上唯一一架具有隱身性、敏捷性、海軍兼容性和超音速的飛機(jī)？

外網(wǎng)熱議：為什么F-35被認(rèn)為是失敗的，盡管它是世界上唯一一架具有隱身性、敏捷性、海軍兼容性和超音速的飛機(jī)？